Jet2 have just spent a lot of money on Low Fare Finder House. Lights, Carpets etc so would be surprised it although nothing would surprise me. What would make more sense is for LBA to demolish the single story Wharfedale Walk block and on a bigger footprint build at least a 4 story building for maybe Jet2 plus having it capable of future growth
LBA Cargo Ops
- Thread starter LBAYORKIE
- Start date
- Dec 30, 2009
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- Thread starter
- #42
I cant say too much a the moment except that my understanding is the same as White Heathers. There is apparently no case for the airport to answer. WFS seem to have taken this decision in isolation.
Bobby Ham, I think your less than positive comments about the airport company on this specific occasion are mis-placed. Having said that you and the whole of the cargo community can definitely be excused for thinking the worst of them given their complete neglect of cargo over many years.
The fact is that WFS are almost certainly using money at LBA, and I do not see how it could be different for any other operator and that barring a miracle a replacement will not be found. From what have gathered almost all regional cargo operations are loss makers these days so LBA and BRS may be the first of many to close. Bobby, you are right that Dnata and Swissport are the only other players and they are not interested.
When WFS close it will be the end of cargo at LBA. The only option the airport will have is to embargo cargo on all flights including any new wide body airline that might come along- which wont help their marketing.
Does anyone know if Cardiff airport has a cargo facility, and if not if they embargo cargo on Qatar flights?
Bobby Ham, I think your less than positive comments about the airport company on this specific occasion are mis-placed. Having said that you and the whole of the cargo community can definitely be excused for thinking the worst of them given their complete neglect of cargo over many years.
The fact is that WFS are almost certainly using money at LBA, and I do not see how it could be different for any other operator and that barring a miracle a replacement will not be found. From what have gathered almost all regional cargo operations are loss makers these days so LBA and BRS may be the first of many to close. Bobby, you are right that Dnata and Swissport are the only other players and they are not interested.
When WFS close it will be the end of cargo at LBA. The only option the airport will have is to embargo cargo on all flights including any new wide body airline that might come along- which wont help their marketing.
Does anyone know if Cardiff airport has a cargo facility, and if not if they embargo cargo on Qatar flights?
a300boy
Well-Known Member
Was it not stated that fees had been increased by Lba so the airport management is part of the reason for the decision.
If it is unprofitable then increasing fees can only make things worse.
If it is unprofitable then increasing fees can only make things worse.
White Heather
Elite Pro-Member
What hangar? The only hangars at LBA are on the Southside of the airfield (Multiflight). Irrespective of whether or not there are longer term plans to re-build the area where the cargo operators are currently housed (which may arise from the next phase of the terminal development in order to extend the departure hall) , LBA would certainly have wanted to relocate them, not kick them out. My source has said to me that it is important for LBA to have a cargo presence, particularly if they are to attract wide body operations, which is their declared intent once the terminal is complete. If this company are leaving other airports besides LBA, I am unsure why there is this 'conspiracy theory' that LBA are forcing them out? Cargo has been discussed often during the Consultative Committee meetings I attend and its importance to LBA in the future has been stated frequently, so it makes no sense for LBA management to engineer a situation that forces a company to leave. It makes even less sense if they are leaving other airports too.
White Heather
Elite Pro-Member
So who said this and where is the evidence of this? Did the other airports they are leaving also increase fees?
Even if that is the case, if for example, the lease terms and conditions permit an increase in rent, or if a new lease is required (often at the start of a new financial year) it is commonplace to increase rents for space occupied in all areas of the property business and airports are no different in that regard. It is not the same thing as engineering a situation that forces them to leave. I have been given the reasons for their departure (and it is not what you all seem to think), but it is not for me to state those reasons on here.
What is certain is that if this company are not replaced right now, they will have to be replaced in time for any long haul / wide body operations that LBA might wish to entice. I would think that the chances of getting such flights into LBA are diminished somewhat if the airline is unable to fly freight into LBA at the same time.
- Dec 30, 2009
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- Thread starter
- #47
I think the issue of rent was raised in a previous post. I have heard this so many times over the years in connection with the freight facility that I just ignored it. Its just a symptom of the airport company not engaging with the air freight community over many years. I started the thread to raise awareness and try to get some background and establish some facts.
Sadly I cant see WFS being replaced. The whole air-freight landscape has changed in the last few years and regional freight operations are not viable, with very few exceptions.
Letting it close and setting up again when a wide body or cargo operator starts operations is not really going to work. By then all the traffic that was previously handled by WFS will be long gone and the Transit Shed will have only flown freight to keep it ticking over, which will not be enough.
I believe at Doncaster Peel operate the Transit Shed there, which is open pretty much 24/7, they dont have any trucked freight but do have quite a bit of flown freight. Even so I strongly suspect the facility is heavily subsidised by Peel.
Emirates have already contacted local forwarders giving them notice that future exports will have to be delivered direct into MAN and I expect similar notifications will be received from other airlines, including BA.
Sadly I cant see WFS being replaced. The whole air-freight landscape has changed in the last few years and regional freight operations are not viable, with very few exceptions.
Letting it close and setting up again when a wide body or cargo operator starts operations is not really going to work. By then all the traffic that was previously handled by WFS will be long gone and the Transit Shed will have only flown freight to keep it ticking over, which will not be enough.
I believe at Doncaster Peel operate the Transit Shed there, which is open pretty much 24/7, they dont have any trucked freight but do have quite a bit of flown freight. Even so I strongly suspect the facility is heavily subsidised by Peel.
Emirates have already contacted local forwarders giving them notice that future exports will have to be delivered direct into MAN and I expect similar notifications will be received from other airlines, including BA.
a300boy
Well-Known Member
Easy to make a comment about the situation when you have the information but cannot pass it on.
The rest of us have to guess why situations pop up and seem to create all sorts of problem which is why we discuss them on here.
I appreciate you cannot reveal sensitive information but the issue of rent levied by Lba was raised in an earlier post to which I was referring and has been a long time source of discussion by many of the operators both past and present and is why my three aircraft are no longer based here.
The dream of wide body long haul operations with full freight holds, once our new terminal is built, remains as likely as Leeds Utd getting to the Premier League but you can never say never can you.
The rest of us have to guess why situations pop up and seem to create all sorts of problem which is why we discuss them on here.
I appreciate you cannot reveal sensitive information but the issue of rent levied by Lba was raised in an earlier post to which I was referring and has been a long time source of discussion by many of the operators both past and present and is why my three aircraft are no longer based here.
The dream of wide body long haul operations with full freight holds, once our new terminal is built, remains as likely as Leeds Utd getting to the Premier League but you can never say never can you.
a300boy
Well-Known Member
LBAYORKIE
It seems strange to me that the Transit Sheds need subsidies either here or anywhere else !
Having flown freight around for 20 or so years and been part of a very profitable company I find it difficult to see why that would be and why no one would want to take the business on.
You might be aware that some airports are taking over functions that they may be able to make some money from such as aircraft handling so maybe that is part of the thinking.
We recently had a quote for a Grumman AA5B landing and parking charge for a three day stop over of approx £3000 at the airport in question. I hasten to say that is not at Lba.
It seems strange to me that the Transit Sheds need subsidies either here or anywhere else !
Having flown freight around for 20 or so years and been part of a very profitable company I find it difficult to see why that would be and why no one would want to take the business on.
You might be aware that some airports are taking over functions that they may be able to make some money from such as aircraft handling so maybe that is part of the thinking.
We recently had a quote for a Grumman AA5B landing and parking charge for a three day stop over of approx £3000 at the airport in question. I hasten to say that is not at Lba.
- Dec 30, 2009
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- Thread starter
- #50
I dont know what the rental arrangements are. You are right this is an old chestnut so maybe no smoke without fire in the past, but on this occasion I dont think its relevant. Regional cargo is going through a very tough time right now and I think WFS are just a victim of the downturn.
Unfortunately this leaves LBA in a bad place. Although I do have loyalties to the air freight community my prime concern when contributing to this forum is the future of the airport. As I see it the forwarders, if all else fails, will find a way around this. My main worry is for the staff at WFS and the airport itself.
Unfortunately this leaves LBA in a bad place. Although I do have loyalties to the air freight community my prime concern when contributing to this forum is the future of the airport. As I see it the forwarders, if all else fails, will find a way around this. My main worry is for the staff at WFS and the airport itself.
White Heather
Elite Pro-Member
What would be easy A300boy is for me not to bother writing to LBA management to find out the facts and to not bother giving you what information I can, so everyone can just continue guessing, and, likely as not, making out that big bad LBA management are to blame, which it seems is the usual reaction to anything.
Nobody is dreaming of wide body long haul operations with full freight holds, but even when we had PIA, it regularly carried pallets of freight in the hold. The same would be expected should, in the future, further long haul operations can be secured - a fact LBA management will no doubt have in mind when they try to replace WFS.
LBAYorkie has stated that Regional Freight is going through a tough time and WFS are victim to this. Precisely. That is almost certainly closer to the truth than suggestions that LBA management have engineered a situation which forces or encourages them to close.
a300boy
Well-Known Member
I don’t think they have engineered anything and I know nothing of the new kids on the block except they seem to have put the money up to develop the new terminal and take your word for the fact they are more focused than the previous owners who sold up and vanished.
We are all judged by what we achieve and the politicians have proved to us that what we are told is not always what will happen or is what they have done.
If they fix some of our problems they will have my support but after a lifetime of watching the fiasco that we have seen over the last 50 years and the lack of support from the local authorities I remain unconvinced.
Lets see if they can do what we would all like to see with a strong push to gain new routes and airlines.
I would have been so happy to hear the management had contacted our fellow poster to advise what could be done to help and retain the facility at Lba maybe they will or have done so already but it does not sound good for future operation we would like to have.
We are all judged by what we achieve and the politicians have proved to us that what we are told is not always what will happen or is what they have done.
If they fix some of our problems they will have my support but after a lifetime of watching the fiasco that we have seen over the last 50 years and the lack of support from the local authorities I remain unconvinced.
Lets see if they can do what we would all like to see with a strong push to gain new routes and airlines.
I would have been so happy to hear the management had contacted our fellow poster to advise what could be done to help and retain the facility at Lba maybe they will or have done so already but it does not sound good for future operation we would like to have.
a300boy
Well-Known Member
Well good luck to anyone who will be affected and lets hope a solution is found that keeps us in the mix.
- Moderator
- #55
News regards one of the airports warehouses being demolished to make way for the new Petrol station, is this building that is currently occupied by WFS?
see: https://forums4airports.com/threads/100/page-125#post-167021
see: https://forums4airports.com/threads/100/page-125#post-167021
Last edited:
- Dec 30, 2009
- 4,076
- 333
- Thread starter
- #57
A meeting was held with the airport management (the airport) and a small group of local BIFA members on the 22nd of May. I have yet to receive any feedback.
An email has already gone around to all BIFA members who support LBA and another is being sent as a 'blanket' email to all other members in the area affected summarising the situation.
Essentially WFS did not give the airport any opportunity to discuss their decision until after it was made, leaving the airport with few options given the relatively short notice period.
A good part of the meeting was taken up by explaining the nature of cargo operations , the effect the decision will have not only on local forwarders but also on other airport users, including FlyBe and Jet2. The point was made that without an operational cargo facility to handle import and export freight the chances of attracting a wide body operator would be diminished.
I can say that the airport seemed to be genuinely concerned about the situation including the wider impact on Yorkshire industry and undertoook to get back to us after presumably doing some more research themselves.
I am hoping that if nothing else comes out of this meeting, a cargo policy will be formulated, plotting the future of air cargo at the airport and giving some direction to stakeholders.
BIFA= British International Freight Association
An email has already gone around to all BIFA members who support LBA and another is being sent as a 'blanket' email to all other members in the area affected summarising the situation.
Essentially WFS did not give the airport any opportunity to discuss their decision until after it was made, leaving the airport with few options given the relatively short notice period.
A good part of the meeting was taken up by explaining the nature of cargo operations , the effect the decision will have not only on local forwarders but also on other airport users, including FlyBe and Jet2. The point was made that without an operational cargo facility to handle import and export freight the chances of attracting a wide body operator would be diminished.
I can say that the airport seemed to be genuinely concerned about the situation including the wider impact on Yorkshire industry and undertoook to get back to us after presumably doing some more research themselves.
I am hoping that if nothing else comes out of this meeting, a cargo policy will be formulated, plotting the future of air cargo at the airport and giving some direction to stakeholders.
BIFA= British International Freight Association
- Admin
- #60
No, not at all. Keep up. White Heather spoke at length about the airports discussions with cargo operators, they are in decline at most airports as cargo operators are concentrating on the main air cargo hubs such as East Midlands.
LBA already has the capacity to handle wide bodies aircraft in the same location as the new terminal. Just because the new terminal will have the capacity to handle such aircraft doesn't mean we're instantly going to be seeing daily wide bodied aircraft, but that doesn't mean LBA shouldn't seek to try and attract them.
