A new airport.... South Yorkshire Airport City?

[GolfFox]

Meanwhile LBA gets a new terminal rejected and therefore could not accommodate TUI if they wanted to come and transfer the operations. I hope it survives but this doesn't look good. Manchester will be the re-treat for TUI. Or shared between Manchester and East Midlands.

Yes really odd that DSA has had loads of public funds spent on it- a major project being the link road when clearly (to most) there was unlikely to be 'payback' - what a waste - whereas as you say the planned LBA new terminal has been withdrawn due to the ridiculous amount of red tape and obstacles involved and have heard nothing about the link road project (although I am somewhat out of touch). Obstacles of every sort seem to be placed in the way of LBA in spite of which it appears to be doing ok and yet the white elephant at DSA seem to be given money and supported at every turn! Really nice facility but 'an airport too far'. Peel seem to have been successful in extracting grants from those with a lack of foresight perhaps for ulterior motives!

 

[Sherburnflyer92]

The trouble is @GolfFox the Labour MP's that represent the City are very very short cited. They are a bunch of hypocritical environmentalists, or hippies, or bunch of green communists, that have no baring on what really we need in this city. The council are the same, Labour have failed this city drastically over the past 30+ years.

It really needs MP's/Councillors who represent Yorkshire/Leeds at it's best interest rather then the bunch of useless opposition Labour MP's/Councillors. I cant wait for them to come knocking.

 

[A400]

I think it’s important to look at other evidence from the last couple of months. Long serving Senior management inexplicably leaving, followed a few weeks later by Wizzair U.K.

Wizz UK may have left as you say however TUI have always been loyal.

 

[pug]

Wizz UK may have left as you say however TUI have always been loyal.

They have, but at what cost? The inability of DSA to attract direct competition? The fact that they had pretty much sewn up the demand anyway? It’s been a great airport for TUI, just apparently not for anyone else.

 

[White Heather]

Wizz UK may have left as you say however TUI have always been loyal.

I am sure the contracts with DSA encouraged that loyalty financially. TUi were far from loyal at LBA when they closed their successful base to move to DSA, and again when they closed their Sunwing base a few years ago despite being contracted to operate. If TUi are not gaining from the arrangement, I doubt their loyalty would last long. It will be interesting to see now what they do for the winter.

 

[White Heather]

It's ironic that the super long runway at DSA which ITV Calendar stated to be 2 miles long, could turn out to be something that makes the sale of DSA less likely. How much for a 2 mile long airfield with ready made major access road which links to the motorway system? Rather a lot.
I would honestly be amazed if any local authorities, even combined, could afford it, with a virtual guarantee of operating losses for the foreseeable future. I really can't see Peel Group taking any notice at all of petitions and politicians.

 

[GolfFox]

It was interesting listening to the Mayor of South Yorkshire on morning TV on his way to a meeting with Peel today. He was going to tell them that after all the investment from the Authority and beyond they should do what they promised to do and keep the airport open! I admire the sentiment but the reality is somewhat different. I am sure Peel would like more free money from him but I would be very careful investing further rate payers money in a facility (excellent though it might be) when it is not rocket science to realise a positive return is highly unlikely. In these days of careful spending it doesn't make sense to keep ploughing money in - just look at the history of the place. TUI seem happy - probably for the reason alluded to by White Heather - but several others have dipped their toe in the water and removed it almost immediately. As DSA and Teesside have discovered once you stop 'buying' airline operations, they cease. Keep 'buying' them and you need a pretty sound platform to explain the drain on resources and who is the beneficiary!! I guess Peel have reached a point where they have decided that they want to stop pouring their money down the aviation drain and to get a much more lucrative return on their asset in a different way! As regards the aviation side, there are too many established airports in fairly near proximity and it seems that John Prescott had it right all along when he foresaw no need for another airport. I think that will make it difficult to sell it as a going concern (or in reality a failing concern) to anyone who can interpret the history and project it forward!

 

[pug]

It was interesting listening to the Mayor of South Yorkshire on morning TV on his way to a meeting with Peel today. He was going to tell them that after all the investment from the Authority and beyond they should do what they promised to do and keep the airport open! I admire the sentiment but the reality is somewhat different. I am sure Peel would like more free money from him but I would be very careful investing further rate payers money in a facility (excellent though it might be) when it is not rocket science to realise a positive return is highly unlikely. In these days of careful spending it doesn't make sense to keep ploughing money in - just look at the history of the place. TUI seem happy - probably for the reason alluded to by White Heather - but several others have dipped their toe in the water and removed it almost immediately. As DSA and Teesside have discovered once you stop 'buying' airline operations, they cease. Keep 'buying' them and you need a pretty sound platform to explain the drain on resources and who is the beneficiary!! I guess Peel have reached a point where they have decided that they want to stop pouring their money down the aviation drain and to get a much more lucrative return on their asset in a different way! As regards the aviation side, there are too many established airports in fairly near proximity and it seems that John Prescott had it right all along when he foresaw no need for another airport. I think that will make it difficult to sell it as a going concern (or in reality a failing concern) to anyone who can interpret the history and project it forward!

Indeed, I forget the exact name of the outfit that bought in to the Peel Airports (as was) about 10 years or so ago. Vancouver Airports Group or some such? However I seem to recall them quickly offloading Teesside, followed swiftly by DSA (back to Peel) and LPL a short time later. Sentiments were that the airports group were a financial drain, and they could not for see any of the group airports ever becoming profitable. LPL has a critical mass where it possibly pays its own way whilst being supported by the surrounding land bank. We know what happened with Teesside - and that is very much at the whim of local politics - and DSA is on face value a bit of a basket case, the demand for which was always in doubt and has been proven to be limited given the number of airline sand routes that have been and rapidly gone in its 17 years of existence.

There are overwhelming rumours on social media suggesting Peel were somehow turning business away and/or charging fees far too high so as to deter airlines from establishing at DSA. This I find hard to believe, although I suspect the Wizz pullout may have had something to do with demand not reaching expectations and a review of based aircraft numbers resulted in their commercial agreement no longer being financially viable. I do hope this is all discovered by the local authorities before any public money is squandered yet further on what is appearing to be a vanity project.

Of course if the review concludes that Peel have been underhand in their dealings with airlines then I would be fully supportive of any proposal to save the airport.

 

[Rob c DSA]

Indeed, I forget the exact name of the outfit that bought in to the Peel Airports (as was) about 10 years or so ago. Vancouver Airports Group or some such? However I seem to recall them quickly offloading Teesside, followed swiftly by DSA (back to Peel) and LPL a short time later. Sentiments were that the airports group were a financial drain, and they could not for see any of the group airports ever becoming profitable. LPL has a critical mass where it possibly pays its own way whilst being supported by the surrounding land bank. We know what happened with Teesside - and that is very much at the whim of local politics - and DSA is on face value a bit of a basket case, the demand for which was always in doubt and has been proven to be limited given the number of airline sand routes that have been and rapidly gone in its 17 years of existence.

There are overwhelming rumours on social media suggesting Peel were somehow turning business away and/or charging fees far too high so as to deter airlines from establishing at DSA. This I find hard to believe, although I suspect the Wizz pullout may have had something to do with demand not reaching expectations and a review of based aircraft numbers resulted in their commercial agreement no longer being financially viable. I do hope this is all discovered by the local authorities before any public money is squandered yet further on what is appearing to be a vanity project.

Of course if the review concludes that Peel have been underhand in their dealings with airlines then I would be fully supportive of any proposal to save the airport.

You know as well as me that some of the suggestions aren't that far fetched and come from people who know more than most along with some of the data regarding landing fees being correct yes we don't know what Peel may charge airline to airline however it seems Peel are possibly charging a heck of a lot more than they need.

Some of the rumours must be very close to the truth in regards to what Peel have and haven't been getting up to, proving them is another matter completely Peel won't have to answer to anything it's a done deal these MP's who are trying to save the airport are just being given the run around by Peel it doesn't look like they can even get Peel to agree to a fact to face meeting never mind anything else.

 

[Aviador]

The reason why Peel are heading down the closure option rather than a sale option is that no airport operator would ever consider purchasing an airport without the airport already achieving or close to achieving critical mass for the foreseeable future.

It's my belief that there aren't too many airports serving the Yorkshire region but one airport in particular has been allowed to expand too much beyond it's natural boundary thus to the detriment of neighbouring airports and ultimately the regions those airports serve.

MPs of both the main parties playing political games have now exacerbated this problem further by successfully manipulating the outcome of an approved planning consent for a new terminal building for Leeds Bradford Airport. Inevitably without adequate facilities to the East of the Pennines will only lead to a further economic shift of busonesses away from the Yorkshire region to regions that do support those businesses.

 

[pug]

You know as well as me that some of the suggestions aren't that far fetched and come from people who know more than most along with some of the data regarding landing fees being correct yes we don't know what Peel may charge airline to airline however it seems Peel are possibly charging a heck of a lot more than they need.

Some of the rumours must be very close to the truth in regards to what Peel have and haven't been getting up to, proving them is another matter completely Peel won't have to answer to anything it's a done deal these MP's who are trying to save the airport are just being given the run around by Peel it doesn't look like they can even get Peel to agree to a fact to face meeting never mind anything else.

I would hardly consider that the people making these comments on social media - usually in response to a comment questioning how it could be unviable given it’s got the longest runway in Europe/used to be an emergency landing site for space shuttle - are in any way informed.

In fact, it’s well documented that FlyBe based their E-jets at DSA under project blackbird, in which FlyBes costs were underwritten by DSA and CWL, this proves beyond any doubt that Peel had in fact been actively trying to generate increased flight offerings. I myself have flown into the airport countless times in the last few years, albeit in light singles and twins, and can assure you I did not pay much for the privilege.

The model was based on stack em high sell em cheap. Peel have found, along with easyjet, FlyBe, Ryanair and possibly Wizz, that demand has consistently not met expectations. Therefore the whole model it has been built on is not viable.

 

[Rob c DSA]

I would hardly consider that the people making these comments on social media - usually in response to a comment questioning how it could be unviable given it’s got the longest runway in Europe/used to be an emergency landing site for space shuttle - are in any way informed.

In fact, it’s well documented that FlyBe based their E-jets at DSA under project blackbird, in which FlyBes costs were underwritten by DSA and CWL, this proves beyond any doubt that Peel had in fact been actively trying to generate increased flight offerings. I myself have flown into the airport countless times in the last few years, albeit in light singles and twins, and can assure you I did not pay much for the privilege.

The model was based on stack em high sell em cheap. Peel have found, along with easyjet, FlyBe, Ryanair and possibly Wizz, that demand has consistently not met expectations. Therefore the whole model it has been built on is not viable.

I can assure you I'm not referring to people on social media.

I wouldn't doubt Peel have tried to make a go at it however like stated above their seems a genuine belief that Peel have given up the ghost in some respects.

 

[pug]

I can assure you I'm not referring to people on social media.

I wouldn't doubt Peel have tried to make a go at it however like stated above their seems a genuine belief that Peel have given up the ghost in some respects.

Well yes they have, I don’t think anyones disputing that. The point I’m trying to make is that Peel cannot keep doing the same thing over and over and expect a different result each time. I have no doubt whatsoever that the Wizzair decision to pull out has been the straw that broke the camels back. There are simply no more airline to attract that haven’t already attempted to establish themselves at DSA and failed.

I fail to see any other option. Perhaps you could provide a solution to the issue?

 

[LBAYORKIE]

My wife has told me that Grant Shapps has said the airport should not close and ought to be purchased by the local council. Does that suggest central government may provide the funds?

 

[pug]

My wife has told me that Grant Shapps has said the airport should not close and ought to be purchased by the local council. Does that suggest central government may provide the funds?

I was under the impression he had failed to turn up to the working group meeting today..? Peel not budging apparently.

 

[Seasider]

I have read (and listened) to all the rhetoric about the feasiblity of the airport but it has got to come down to the fact that there are not enough passengers wanting to fly from DSA on a regular basis. You could say that if more flights were offered, it would attract more, but airlines nowadays need to be achieving load factors of 90% plus.
As an example, TUI have based 4 aircraft this summer but only 1 this winter, which I interpret as the majority of passengers are flying on holiday. DSA has never to attracted the regular business traveler because they have more opportunity from other airports - mainly MAN.
Wizz Air offered flight only to holiday destinations but didn't manage to occupy one aircraft even when the upturn in air travel started again this year.
I think there is a possibility - and this applies to all airports - that next year we will see a drop in demand as a lot of holidays taken this year should have been taken in 2020 and paid for before the rise in the cost of living.

 

[Seasider]

Whilst writing

I was under the impression he had failed to turn up to the working group meeting today..? Peel not budging apparently.

I think that Peel have already made the decision to close the airport and have the costings and figures to prove it is unviable.

 

[pug]

Whilst writing

I think that Peel have already made the decision to close the airport and have the costings and figures to prove it is unviable.

Yes for them it’s a foregone conclusion, but I think they would be opening to selling it on for the right price. Won’t be in any way cheap, certainly not the £1.00 they paid for Sheffield City!

 

[LBAYORKIE]

Whilst writing

I think that Peel have already made the decision to close the airport and have the costings and figures to prove it is unviable.

They decided to close Teeside, but the council stepped in and its still open.

 

[Jerry]

Is DSA within the South Yorkshire Mayor regional authority's area? I believe transport comes under it so maybe Peel want a repeat of what they did at Teesside?