Leeds Bradford: Infrastructure & Construction Updates

[Aviador]

In respect of Farnborough, the threshold is normally displaced some way down the runway. However I noticed during the Air Show that aircraft were landing at a different point and was advised that this only took place when the Show was in progress. Presumably there are special rules in place at that time. I can't point you to the literature.
The CAA's stance on the RESA requirement at LBA and the threshold displacement to accommodate CAT3 lighting formed part of the evidence at the Public Inquiry into the planning application for the runway extension.

I don't want to sound like I'm discrediting you blotbuc1 but I'm struggling with this. If you can provide me with some evidence of this then I will happily accept what you say but I'm not convinced at all.

Luton airport has CAT 3 on both ends. Have you seen the 08 approach end? The piano keys at Luton are only around 80m from the end of the paved runway.

https://goo.gl/maps/aQF95WKHZ2H2
Road at the end on runway at Luton

https://goo.gl/maps/tx4icsdqhfx
Piano keys at Luton airport

In any case, LBA airport should not accept the status quo. It's a dire set up which needs changing.

 

[a300boy]

No real impact on the height the aircraft would pass over the houses on Scotland lane etc in my opinion.
The problem is it’s not seen as important enough to spend the amount of money needed.
I believe it would make a massive difference to operational problems we have but I am not the one paying so we will have to see if the new management have a different opinion from our last owners who had no interest in resolving the problem.

 

[a300boy]

Luton’s thresholds are almost at the end of each end of the runway as the new undershoot area rules are not required unless an extension is carried out.
Grandfather rules are in place.

 

[LBA4EVER]

Extending the runway by 300metres which is by far the best solution or moving the touchdown point back to the original zone in my opinion in stopping lba becoming expanding airport we want. lba is expanding yes but progress is slow i feel, but the 300metres would be the icing on the cake to kick start major expansion, simple as!
Untill this is sorted all we will see is the usual expansion from the likes of jet2, ryanair etc When the runway is extended and brought upto a good standard then we may see the likes of qatar,emirates,pia and perhaps usa flights

 

[blotbuc1]

I agree with you about the need to resolve the threshold issue and fully accept what you saying about being able to move the threshold and provide the required RESA without needing more concrete. Resiting the ILS and lighting equipment is also feasible. The point I am making is that it appears that in order to do this lighting columns would have to be sited in a residential area which won't go down very well and could prove very expensive.

 

[LBA4EVER]

Its proving very expensive atm as lba is losing out big time! you have to spend to make bigger returns.

 

[LBA4EVER]

Lba has so many issues with its runway,infrastructure,transport links etc but i strongly believe a runway extension is the key to it all as it would kickstart the whole progress of expansion and esp situated next to englands 3rd largest city and west yorkshire.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

LBA is not alone in being in this position. BRS, that has so many similarities with LBA, would benefit from a runway extension too but the owners have said it's not in their plans despite the current major public consultation into the next master plan to take the airport as far as the 2040s.

They maintain the stance of their previous master plan that the cost, both financial and environmental, would not be justified relative to any gain that might be achieved in airport capability.

 

[Sherburnflyer92]

On a separate note all together; would our local MP's back this?

There will be a huge economic benefit to Leeds City Region but i can imagine my local labour MP would be against it. They are far to interested in the 5 years of government and their own job security then public service and making a difficult decision with longer term benefits over negative publicity.

Which is why i didn't vote for him this last time round and will defiantly not vote for him next general election.

 

[Aviador]

No doubt they will have assessed via cost benefit analysis: the lack of progress suggests it isn’t worth the risk at the moment. I personally agree that it is very shortsighted and that the threshold option as the least costly option should be explored. Unfortunately infrastructure in the UK tends to work on shortsighted profits for private companies, which generally ends up costing more in the long run and second rate services for the public. WH if it hasn’t been asked before at your airport meetings would you ask if they have any figures, or when it was last reviewed please?

With new management in place it's probably worth asking the question again even if it's been asked before.
It's probably also worth asking the new team if they can elaborate on the runway enhancement mention in the masterplan.

 

[jason1-11]

The Terminal is having its big switch around next winter, the funding for the new road and parkway station are in place ( just a case of getting on with it) so for me it just leaves the runway that requires attention. Aviador’s sums up the gains perfectly:

• 300m additional Landing Distance
• 
  
• Significant improvement in autoland performance
• 
  
• Significant improvement in autoland usage
• 
  
• Greater usage of the airport during LVPs
• 
  
• Better public perception of LBA due to fewer diversions
• 
  
• More commitment by airlines particularly during the winter months.
• 
  
• Airlines more willing to use larger aircraft because of longer LDA

Due to its location the Airport will always suffer from poor visibility issues so any money spent improving the ability to land aircraft cannot be considered a vanity project, but a vital capital expenditure investment thus ensuring the continued future success of LBA. Can you image seeing a Jet2 757 landing CAT3B on 32 or a based TUI 737-800 accepting a CAT3A with a SE tailwind let alone an Emirates 787 heading East?

LBA can offer access to 2 of the UK’s largest cities, one of England’s major tourist destinations: York and the largest Pakistani community in the UK so why are airlines not knocking on the door to operate here. Answer because Manchester covers the vast majority of business, long haul, inbound tourism , city break traffic etc. generated by this region primarily due to the current facilities on offer.

For inspiration take a look up the A1 to see what can be achieved.

 

[Tarn Spotter]

I doubt airport management which to discuss this matter in public. I moved in to the area in 1987 and remember the bitter exchanges between those who wanted to see extended hours and those who would do anything to stop the airport expanding. I had hardly moved my furniture in when a petition was thrust in my face asking me to sign to stop additional airport opening hours. I refused to sign putting me at odds with my neighbours at day one.
Unfortunately today the NIMBYS have so many different social media outlets to present their case its hard to defend even the most basic of house planning applications, even with our massive housing shortage.
It may be better to wait until the new link road published, which also may upset residents of Scotland Lane area. There is a possibility of compulsory purchase orders depending on the route taken, this may be the time to reveal a big picture outlook.

 

[Aviador]

To reiterate, the discussion above is not about laying extra concrete, it's about making best use of the concrete that's already there. If there are implications for local residents then waiting for the link road route announcement might be advantageous. What is clear though is LBA will NOT reach it's potential until something is done to rectify the problem that is providing a hindrance to growth and sustainability.

 

[LBA4EVER]

The choice is this to the residents of scotland lane... touchdown point moved back to the start of the runway or a 300metre runway extension upto your back garden! lol take your pick!

 

[michael]

Maybe our resident flight providers need to invest in some Ospreys, vertical take off, normal flight. That would cure the problem!!😵😵

 

[LBA4EVER]

I know that i support my lba but it really is pathetic what we have atm and it really does annoy me, im aware that there is growth and we are looking at over 4million pax passing through now,but for a city the size of leeds plus west yorkshire we should have at least a 9 or 10million pax airport! I flew back from alicante a coupe of weeks back with its fantastic all glass and metal terminal complete with a 10,000ft runway ( piano keys at the very start of runway too!) As for the terminal at lba, just knock the lot down, stop adding bits on that look outta place and just build a modern alicante size airport! I will stop moaning now!

 

[LBA8098]

LBA has and seemingly continues to be blighted by both a lack of ambition and investment. Discuss.......

 

[Aviador]

LBA has and seemingly continues to be blighted by both a lack of ambition and investment. Discuss.......

The new management has been saying all the right things since taking over the airport but if they can't meet their objectives because of the airfield constraints, will they show willingness to tackle those constraints.

 

[Tarn Spotter]

LBA has and seemingly continues to be blighted by both a lack of ambition and investment. Discuss.......

Cant agree.
The last owners bought the airport when the bottom dropped out of aviation travel, both leisure and business after the 2008 financial crash. When you see a 25% drop in revenue overnight your not likely to splash the cash.
In 2009 you saw Ryanair move out of Manchester which again must have shaken LBA management.
Its taken the local council 2 decades and still counting to improve transport links to the airport and the strong anti airport local brigade have our local MP in their pocket and he has more splinters in his backside from fence sitting then any other person in the community.
Certainly I feel the airport has found its unique niche, bucket and spade holidays, city breaks and a possible growth as a feeder to hub airports.
Were seeing "Open Sky" talks with both the E.U. and America making a fairly clear direction of travel, both deals likely to be huge blows for Ryanair who are likely to find neither bodies wants them.
Every major change such as Brexit brings with it opportunities for those who see clearly future business direction, its certainly not going to be as we know it today in air travel. Business folk want to make money, whatever the circumstances put in their path, if I look at the major changes that occurred in the decade after we joined the E.u. in 1972, no one saw them happening, but bright business folk saw an open door, even though many existing doors were closed to them, as will happen again.
Next week sees the first non stop 17 hour flight London to Perth on a Dreamliner aircraft, whos layout is totally different from a normal cabin as we know. Its unlikely this will remain unchanged, first changes usually undergo major enhancement as you learn what works and what does not work. Certainly the first trip Australia to Los Angeles seems to have divided opinion.
Against this back ground of a changing world and shrinking world for air travel the new owners of LBA have to look at the previous Masterplan and decide whether its worth the paper its printed on or should they embrace the changes such as Brexit, parkway Station, link road etc.
I go through the airport every month and for years work has been ongoing and major work on the terminal will last for quite a while, yes their are some major bottlenecks but the new owners seem to be aware. Airside changes can only be brought forward if you know the direction of travel, in respect of planning etc.
Talking to people locally the airport in its present format is acceptable to local residents, start developing long distance travel and the harmony will be broken, its taken nearly 30 years since the last major change at the airport for it to be accepted, for every gain the airport requires, they will have to make a concession, this will curtail any grandiose ambitious plans the airport may have.

 

[Tarn Spotter]

LBA has and seemingly continues to be blighted by both a lack of ambition and investment. Discuss.......

Cant agree.
The last owners bought the airport when the bottom dropped out of aviation travel, both leisure and business after the 2008 financial crash. When you see a 25% drop in revenue overnight your not likely to splash the cash.
In 2009 you saw Ryanair move out of Manchester which again must have shaken LBA management.
Its taken the local council 2 decades and still counting to improve transport links to the airport and the strong anti airport local brigade have our local MP in their pocket and he has more splinters in his backside from fence sitting then any other person in the community.
Certainly I feel the airport has found its unique niche, bucket and spade holidays, city breaks and a possible growth as a feeder to hub airports.
Were seeing "Open Sky" talks with both the E.U. and America making a fairly clear direction of travel, both deals likely to be huge blows for Ryanair who are likely to find neither bodies wants them.
Every major change such as Brexit brings with it opportunities for those who see clearly future business direction, its certainly not going to be as we know it today in air travel. Business folk want to make money, whatever the circumstances put in their path, if I look at the major changes that occurred in the decade after we joined the E.u. in 1972, no one saw them happening, but bright business folk saw an open door, even though many existing doors were closed to them, as will happen again.
Next week sees the first non stop 17 hour flight London to Perth on a Dreamliner aircraft, whos layout is totally different from a normal cabin as we know. Its unlikely this will remain unchanged, first changes usually undergo major enhancement as you learn what works and what does not work. Certainly the first trip Australia to Los Angeles seems to have divided opinion.
Against this back ground of a changing world and shrinking world for air travel the new owners of LBA have to look at the previous Masterplan and decide whether its worth the paper its printed on or should they embrace the changes such as Brexit, parkway Station, link road etc.
I go through the airport every month and for years work has been ongoing and major work on the terminal will last for quite a while, yes their are some major bottlenecks but the new owners seem to be aware. Airside changes can only be brought forward if you know the direction of travel, in respect of planning etc.
Talking to people locally the airport in its present format is acceptable to local residents, start developing long distance travel and the harmony will be broken, its taken nearly 30 years since the last major change at the airport for it to be accepted, for every gain the airport requires, they will have to make a concession, this will curtail any grandiose ambitious plans the airport may have.