Leeds Bradford: Infrastructure & Construction Updates

[White Heather]

I will be going if I am free to do so, but no guarantees yet as there are family issues going on at the moment which have the potential to change my plans.

 

[Aviador]

I would imagine any embargo on the public seeing the work will be lifted on the same date. Do you think you would be able to obtain digital images to post here @White Heather ?

 

[KARFA]

Presumably this is all easier than building a new stand alone terminal? Seems like a lot of faffing around and potentially limits passenger expansion while works are in place. Nevertheless it will be much better than the current set up!

Where would you build a stand-alone new terminal?

 

[Aviador]

Potentially the same area as the extension and utilise part of the area used for car parking? TBH I’m not a planner or engineer, but arsing around re-engineering 1960’s buildings won’t come cheap or be a winning end result IMO.

I tend to agree with you there @xboy999 which is why I think it needs to be done with a view to adding a new departure area in the future.

 

[Tarn Spotter]

Although on grandad duties on the 27th, will try to shorten my day and get down to the bramhope hotel around 3.30pm

 

[Aviador]

Although on grandad duties on the 27th, will try to shorten my day and get down to the bramhope hotel around 3.30pm

I would be very grateful if you could give us a full rundown of the proposals if you make it down there.

 

[Aviador]

@White Heather

I'm not doubting what you say about legislation and I'm not saying they shouldn't build a ramp, but is it really the only way it can be done? As I said in my earlier post, if it is necessary, then it really needs to be brought inside. At least then it wont be as slippy during poor weather conditions. Maybe it is but it's difficult to tell with the two pictures they've released.

What is impressive about the development as somebody else mentioned is the scale. It's larger than what I was expecting to be honest but I'm concerned at what £12 million will buy. Are you aware of any further renders the airport might be publishing on their open day, or is it likely to be much more of the same.

 

[lbaspotter]

I think all the latest airport projects such as Heathrow's terminal 5 are ridiculously expensive, it gives a false impression of what an airport terminal actually is. Basically its a tin shed with some security, apparatus, shops stuffed inside.
With this in mind, the new building shouldn't be ridiculously expensive, and it shouldn't take long to construct the basic building..

 

[lbaspotter]

By way it looks like Watson Batty might be involved in the terminal extension as they posted the following on there twitter account on Friday.

https://twitter.com/Watsonbatty/status/1040545821937356800?s=19

View attachment 9818

 

[White Heather]

My understanding is that the £12m is just for this new building - which Davy Laws claimed not be an extension of the old one. If it joins to the old one (which it will) then he is splitting hairs really as it is both a new building AND an extension to the old one. They have said that having completed this, phase 2 will be to reconfigure the existing terminal, which I assume will be to provide a new, larger, check in area and new, larger security area.

There is a consultative meeting this coming Thursday and if I get the chance I will ask about the ramp, whether it might be incorporated into the building to avoid issues in cold weather, and also weather discussions are taking place with groups representing people with disabilities. The DDA regulations (Disabilities Discrimination Act) requires all new buildings to be bang up to date with the latest DDA requirements, which tend to be updated regularly to reflect good practice. So this means good access, wider doors, better toilet facilities, wider gangways etc. Refurbishments require only that the building is brought up to standard as far as is reasonably possible and the latest requirements of DDA are not necessary as the legislation is not retrospective. There should be quite a difference therefore between the standards in the old building and the new one.

Back to cost - I know LBA had a budget of £11m for the works they started some years ago to enlarge the terminal interior, providing the new Duty Free, bars etc. but I believe that budget also included other 'bits and pieces' that were less obvious. What I would also point out is that refurbishing a building currently in use whilst keeping it operational at the same time is generally more expensive than building new. In some cases, far more expensive because contractors are required to work funny hours to get around the fact the airport is still operational. Building new provides best value for money - a point I have made to LBA management on a number of occasions.

I will report back with what I can after Thursday's meeting when the agenda includes a presentation on the terminal plans.

 

[KARFA]

I think all the latest airport projects such as Heathrow's terminal 5 are ridiculously expensive, it gives a false impression of what an airport terminal actually is. Basically its a tin shed with some security, apparatus, shops stuffed inside.
With this in mind, the new building shouldn't be ridiculously expensive, and it shouldn't take long to construct the basic building..

The whole project to build T5 was far more complex than just putting up one (or three including T5B and C) building. Essentially a whole new airport was built on the western side of the LHR site which accommodates more passengers than most major airport have in total, along with a huge amount of new associated infrastructure and transport all being done on site at a live very busy airport. When you actually look at what was done you may begin to understand why it cost £4bn.

Frankly £12m for this much needs expansion at LBA seems very good value if it can be done to that price, and represents a real opportunity to transform things by allowing moving and expanding security, passport control, and baggage reclaim. Three areas which currently get a lot of fairly justified criticism. I am really looking forward to this expansion and it is great to see serious money being committed to the airport.

 

[Bigman]

It's ironic that the aerial view on the press article shows a BMI Regional ER145 on stand 3, given the rumours on the other thread.

 

[Finger66]

My opinion is this terminal extension is going to be the biggest thing to happen to LBA. Current infrastructure is clearly hindering development to some degree. And whilst we don't want the end result to look cheap the overriding need for functionality is more important. That may then just help attract a few more airlines to the party. I see this as nothing but great news

 

[Bigman]

Indeed, we just need the £75M link road now, with an LBA Parkway Station acting as interchange where HS2 crosses the new M65 extension from Colne to Bramham!!

 

[Tarn Spotter]

With regard to the ramp mentioned above and it being closed off in the past, don't forget that back then there was very little legislation regarding access for people with disabilities. Now there most certainly is, so the design of the building inside and out must comply with the latest legislation and must provide the required access at all times. Just closing it off due to poor weather isn't an option other than in short term emergency situations - such as snow clearing or gritting. It is also commonplace now, when designing such buildings, for discussions to take place with organisations representing people with disabilities to ensure that nothing is overlooked.

With regard to ceiling heights, windows, natural light, number of carousels etc. I cannot see why there are such negative comments already when we have absolutely no clue about interior layout of the final design. LBA are clearly not going to invest in a new building that provides a larger arrivals area and then provide insufficient. It amazes me that when something like this is announced, there is an immediate tendency to take a glass half empty view. Mine remains half full!

I am glad you have more faith then I have.
We arrived last year on the first day the new gates 9 and 10 opened.
When the special assistance guy got our name, advised that he had not used these new gates and had no idea the route.
We were still in the old SA area and the guy proceeded to ask the route. We had only been going one minute before we met 2 steps, we retraced our route and he used his walkie talkie to be advised he was on the right route.
A lady came and she said she would walk the route to return one minute later to say steps.
After 30 minutes decided the only way was airside and the open air, thankfully not raining.
I was told that someone had walked this new route and passed as acceptable after a hand over, obviously they did not take a wheel chair with them.
We were in a brand new 5 Star hotel this year in London, its opening literature advised it met every modern need, especially for the disabled.
Wrote a letter to the owner after our stay to ask if the faults we had passed to the hotel manager, advising 10 major issues and at least 20 minor ones for disabled guests, had been brought to the owners attention. Reply thanked me bringing to his attention and he regret deeply that they had encountered over major 50 problems since opening, more then half effecting disabled guests, three major situations were steps on walkways to dining rooms etc, similar to the airport
When we walked in to the disabled room, the key card holder too high, the electric kettle unacceptable and most plugs inaccessible to wheelchair guests and you needed a hoist to get on the bed and the bathroom failed every test.
The owner is to invite us and other disabled people to road test the new changes when complete.
If LBA use the same experts to install disabled facilities we have no chance. Its often impossible to pick things up off maps and drawings, I am fairly sure the two steps at LBA were put in to join the different levels between two buildings on construction, the panic to complete, blindsiding everyone to other factors.

 

[Scottie Dog]

Regrettably Tarn spotter this kind of a problem is all to common. The sooner all "walking" checks are done by a person in a wheelchair the better. It gives a whole new dimension to what is seen and experienced - it is not necessary for the person to have a disability, just the first hand experience.

 

[White Heather]

I am glad you have more faith then I have.
We arrived last year on the first day the new gates 9 and 10 opened.
When the special assistance guy got our name, advised that he had not used these new gates and had no idea the route.
We were still in the old SA area and the guy proceeded to ask the route. We had only been going one minute before we met 2 steps, we retraced our route and he used his walkie talkie to be advised he was on the right route.
A lady came and she said she would walk the route to return one minute later to say steps.
After 30 minutes decided the only way was airside and the open air, thankfully not raining.
I was told that someone had walked this new route and passed as acceptable after a hand over, obviously they did not take a wheel chair with them.
We were in a brand new 5 Star hotel this year in London, its opening literature advised it met every modern need, especially for the disabled.
Wrote a letter to the owner after our stay to ask if the faults we had passed to the hotel manager, advising 10 major issues and at least 20 minor ones for disabled guests, had been brought to the owners attention. Reply thanked me bringing to his attention and he regret deeply that they had encountered over major 50 problems since opening, more then half effecting disabled guests, three major situations were steps on walkways to dining rooms etc, similar to the airport
When we walked in to the disabled room, the key card holder too high, the electric kettle unacceptable and most plugs inaccessible to wheelchair guests and you needed a hoist to get on the bed and the bathroom failed every test.
The owner is to invite us and other disabled people to road test the new changes when complete.
If LBA use the same experts to install disabled facilities we have no chance. Its often impossible to pick things up off maps and drawings, I am fairly sure the two steps at LBA were put in to join the different levels between two buildings on construction, the panic to complete, blindsiding everyone to other factors.

Tarn Spotter, I didn't say I have faith in the people who provide the service, I stated that this being a new building, it would have to be built in accordance with the latest DDA regulations whereas the areas you are referring to were not required to be up to the latest standards as the regulations are not retrospective. Buildings and people are two different things. A building can have all the latest requirements of the regulations and it will still not work if the people who assist are not up to the job.

 

[LBA4EVER]

If plans are to extend the original terminal out into what is the current taxi and bus drop off areas together with the new large extension to the terminal we will end up with a very large, long rectangular shapped terminal with a nice straight front to it,a bit similar to Liverpool airport, so this should look real good!

 

[Aviador]

If plans are to extend the original terminal out into what is the current taxi and bus drop off areas together with the new large extension to the terminal we will end up with a very large, long rectangular shapped terminal with a nice straight front to it,a bit similar to Liverpool airport, so this should look real good!

I think the second phase to transform the current terminal building is going to cost £5m - that makes a total spend of £16m. It's difficult to emagine what they can do for that amount of money.

 

[White Heather]

fight2win, the previously proposed extension out into the bus and taxi drop off area (which they had approval for and had already laid the foundations for) has been scrapped and replaced with this new scheme - plus phase 2 of that scheme, details of which are yet to emerge, but will provide a new enlarged check in area (just one instead of the current two) and new, enlarged security zone roughly where the current baggage reclaim area is. The new owners wanted a scheme which would separate departing and arriving traffic completely which this new proposal does, but the old scheme failed to do completely. That is why they have recently spent money on the forecourt area and are planning a covered walkway from the drop off area up to the main terminal front door. They wouldn't have done so if they were planning to build a terminal extension in that area. Hope that helps?