Safety & Rules: Air Accidents and Incidents discussions

[Ray Finkle]

I have flown regularly all my life without concern, now turning 40 this year and with better knowledge than ever before about aircraft / operations and doubts start to creep in... anyone else find this happening ?
maybe it s due to the old 'more to leave behind' scenario ??

I'm turning 40 next year and with two small children now at the top of my priorities it's definitely changed my outlook on things. I wouldn't say I've been a 100% confident flyer but I had faith in the skill, ability and high level of training of pilots, maintenance crews etc to not let it keep me awake at night but there was always that doubt that something could go wrong, something that would be beyond the capabilities of even the best pilots and what the outcome would be. As I said, it's never prevented me from visiting the places I've wanted to visit but there is usually a small sigh of relief when we reach our destination safely.

 

[BSL-2km]

I knew i wasn't the only one... it really is a strange feeling, considering a life long passion for aircraft and many hours topside..

What are your feelings on the missing aircraft ? Seems to me like she was brought down, can't see any other scenario playing out...
Pilot error ? distress calls bound to have been made. radar signals would have been picked up.. there would be more of a trail to follow, i reckon.
Mid air break up ? seems unlikely, doesn't really happen without influence ..
Engine or catastrophic failure of some sort ? dunno, maybe , but seems very unlikely for many reasons;
I am leaning towards the unthinkable... brought down intentionally... at altitude...possible turn back attempted. She will be found shortly, tonight i reckon.

Pure speculation, i know, but there is little else to go on, except grinding the numbers and seeing what they say.
What do you think ?

Peace and love to all those involved, whatever happened.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

I am leaning towards the unthinkable... brought down intentionally... at altitude...possible turn back attempted. She will be found shortly, tonight i reckon.

Pure speculation, i know, but there is little else to go on, except grinding the numbers and seeing what they say.
What do you think ?

I really have no opinion on this.

The 'favoured' explanation seems to be some sort of catastrophic failure within the aircraft that occurred suddenly, although it's true that an explosive device would almost certainly have the same instant effect. So far as I'm aware no organisation has claimed responsibility, even spurious claims which are not unknown when acts of terrorism occur.

 

[Ray Finkle]

I really have no opinion on this.

I feel the same way.

Sky have an interesting article.

Flight MH370: 13 Things You Need To Know


Why has no wreckage been found?

Whatever caused the apparent crash, there would be some debris - but it could take a while to find. It took two years to find the main wreckage of Air France flight 447 in 2009. In 2007, in the case of the Adam Air flight, it was a week before an Indonesian naval vessel detected metal on the ocean floor. It was a further two weeks before the US Navy picked up signals from the flight data and cockpit recorders and seven months for the recorder to be recovered. If the plane had crashed on land, chances are the wreckage would have been found by now. At sea, much of the plane would have sunk, but some debris should remain on the surface. Worryingly, the longer the search takes the harder it becomes as the wind and tide spread any debris further from the initial crash zone.

 

[BSL-2km]

Just finished viewing 5000 map tiles on Tomnod.com
You can help with the search by studying images of the suspected crash areas, worth a try, i thought.

Having no opinion is fine, but as aircraft enthusiasts, it is bound to seem odd that there is nothing , nothing, yet to go on ?

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Perhaps it would have been more accurate if I'd said I was still open minded.

Today there are reports that the aircraft had changed course and Malaysian military radar recorded it near the Malacca Strait, which is well away from the search area predicated by its expected course.

Another side show today was an allegation by a woman that on a previous flight she and another woman were allowed onto the flight deck during flight and that one of the pilots was the first officer on the missing flight.

In the words of Alice In Wonderland it's becoming curiouser and curiouser.

 

[BSL-2km]

Time to polarize opinions on me, was always going to come eventually.... :whiteflag:

Please bare with me...

Apart from my interest in Aviation, i have always been involved with the esoteric. Not really the thread to discuss this subject but it is directly linked to this incident. Over the past number of years i have had creepily accurate visions of 'world events', verified by friends and family in advance of the actual event. So much so that i have a diary of dated and signed (by whomever was present at the vision) records of these happenings... I do not record all, only those which seem more important, in the grand scheme of things. I do not ask for these visions, and i do not control any aspect of them, the just happen. Many have been aircraft related. I do not do random , and often the content of the vision is in direct conflict with what my logic mind and my normal train of thought.

Getting to the point, the day/night after the vanishing, i had a one. As usual i was on-board for the viewing, the aircraft landed at a remote airstrip, in an urban looking area, although rather desolate. The old airport building / hangar was used as a clothes/textiles factory recently and is in a damages state of repair. The plane was approached by a gang of thugs, no uniforms, just 'dodgy street ' style, they were involved with this event. I was hiding and watching. End of vision.

I quickly relayed the info to my wife, as it arrived, as always in dream form. I quickly prematurely dismissed it as the JAL 787 which diverted to Hawaii (the next day) as it seemed to be an aircraft at wrong airport, but the other circumstances of the vision kept it open as a possibility for the 777. Now that the search is leading to further and further away from the supposed crash site, it seems more and more possible.
Just for info, i have just over an 80% accuracy rate with these things, with the error 20% frequently being my interpretation as it can be hard to articulate and get all down on paper as seen....

Funnily enough 8 out of ten usually dismiss me as a loon... :crazy:

Not afraid to be wrong... Don't ban me guys, I ain't no nut, promise. :hatsoff:

 

[BSL-2km]

i'll get me coat

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Put the coat back on the hook.

I can't say I've had premonitions in dreams but sometimes if I casually think about something but don't dwell on it and then quickly forget it I often find that it actually occurs in the near future, which seems to suggest the near subconscious thought was some sort of presentiment.

For example, I might muse on the fact that I haven't heard from a certain person for ages. If I think no more about it then within a day or two I'll receive a letter or telephone call out of the blue from that person. Doesn't always happen of course but it does often enough.

I don't think I'm alone in this.

The Malaysia Airlines incident is now becoming curiouser than Alice's adventures. It seems clear that for whatever reason the Malaysian authorities have known much more about what went on than they've hinted at. If they've known this for a while and believe that the aircraft veered dramatically off course why concentrate most of the search efforts in the area of the scheduled course?

News today suggests that the captain's home has been searched by the Malaysian authorities.

It may be that there are good reasons for playing cards close to chest but the way the incident has been played out means that speculation is running riot. I suspect that already writers are preparing manuscripts for books on the subject.

 

[Aviador]

Crikey, we're all coming out of the loony bin now!

I too can confirm the similar happenings as reported by TheLocalYokel. I often think about people who I haven't seen for years and low and behold I see them within a day or so after thinking about them.

 

[BSL-2km]

Thanks for the open minded response guys.
Indeed it is one and the same with the knowing in advance of a distant friend or relative getting in touch, ,, and the same as the 'I knew the phone was going to ring' scenario. It is just a little more vivid and indeed shocking when sky new splays back the event just as you have seen it. Certain feelings of guilt accompany closely. But it is what it is, it happens to me occasionally, thankfully not too often.

 

[Aviador]

You've got me searching Andaman Islands for clothing manufacturers near airports. :shok:

 

[BSL-2km]

sorry about that ! .. let me know if you dig anything up... nearly sure it was under garments of the female variety.. but i could be mixing up dreams there 😀

 

[BSL-2km]

Could there be a link between the two major international news stories at the moment ?
MH370 somehow linked to Ukraine and the US/Russia stand-off ?
One thing is for sure, we are never shown the truth on the tellybox.
The MH370 scenario is proof of this, there is no way that the levels of confusion, surrounding this case, are due to stupidity or chance.
I reckon they know where this aircraft is and always have done. To what ends ? why ?
A 772 ER cannot and has not just vanished, unless it has just vanished, literally vanished as in other dimension activity... It can go missing, yes, it can be a nuisance to find, even difficult perhaps, if you throw in some smoke and mirrors, but to completely disappear in 3 or 4 different areas, (as we are being spoon fed by the media) really beggars belief. First it was here, then there, now somewhere else ? It takes the military a week to look at their radar records ?? come on....
Following this story must make one wonder, what is really going on here ?
Something has happened here, in such a busy air corridor, such a busy fishing and shipping area, areas with huge populations. The technological might of the US, China, and the Asian nations cannot find this plane ? nonsense.

Just on a another topic, the Helicopter crash in Norfolk , that was my ex boss, Eddie Haughey, worked for him for 8 years in Norbrook Laboratories . Strangely enough he lost another helicopter and pilots in fog a few years back, similar situation, but as they approached his castle in my hometown in Co.Down,the mountains snook up on them...
Some folks just cannot take a warning.

1996 crash:
http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/spl ... h-1.422039

Final crash:
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/ ... -1.1724601

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Could there be a link between the two major international news stories at the moment ?
MH370 somehow linked to Ukraine and the US/Russia stand-off ?
One thing is for sure, we are never shown the truth on the tellybox.
The MH370 scenario is proof of this, there is no way that the levels of confusion, surrounding this case, are due to stupidity or chance.
I reckon they know where this aircraft is and always have done.

I've heard any number of 'experts' giving their views on this. The ones to whom I attach most credibility are those who've flown big commercial jets, those who are experienced accident investigators and those who possess serious qualifications and wide experience of the technical issues likely to play a major part.

None that I've heard will come out and say they are confident they know are are pretty certain of what happened. They give various possible scenarios and, in my opinion, quite rightly say they keep an open mind until irrefutable evidence is presented. It's certainly the right way to do it as any good and experienced detective will tell you. The mind must be kept alive to all possibilities, including those that some will consider far fetched although I'm not suggesting that the aircraft might turn up in the Gobi Desert having been captured and taken into space by aliens a la Spielberg's 'Close Encounters.....'

 

[BSL-2km]

Good morn TLY,
'alive to all possibilities indeed', including the Gobi desert scenario, as that too is a possibility until it is proved incorrect.?
The experts paraded infront of the cameras are all part of the charade,(IMHO) they are there for one purpose and one purpose only, to muddy the waters and try to mould the train of thought of those watching. An old trick, very effective too, as 'Capt S Pance' with the handlebars moustache must have a better idea of what is going on than the rest of us , right ??
Nothing personal but I'm not convinced..
239 passengers, people, real people are going through some sort of terrible experience.... and we are fed all this BS.
That is of course if the flight really existed at all ? is that within the 'reaches' of an open mind ?
We really don't know what is going on, there are powerful forces at work behind the muse of world politics.
The media is at best corrupt and at worst an agenda driven government squawk.

Just my thoughts, often they are outside the box, granted, my solution to that is ditch the box.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

I certainly have no love for politicians and occasionally make this clear within this forum and, yes, governments have pulled all sorts of underhand tricks and stunts sometimes despicable, including UK governments of all political persuasions, to further the cause of themselves rather than that of the country, particularly when it comes to something that might severely embarrass them.

The sort of people I mentioned earlier do have the knowledge and experience that most of us lack when it comes to technical operational matters concerning the aircraft, communications and tracking systems. I've learned from them what is possible and what is not so far as the aircraft and tracking its course is concerned.

That's the technical side. The human side whether governments, terrorists, hijackers or crew error or deliberate interference is another and far less predictable.

I take your point to a degree that an open mind should rule out nothing, even aliens taking the B 777 and returning it via the Gobi Desert, but I do set realistic limits (realistic to me, that is) on how open my mind is. So with that in mind maybe the door to my mind is not a completely open one after all, although I honestly have no leaning towards any one of the numerous theories that have been put forward in the news media and through the Internet.

I conclude by saying that whatever the explanation turns out to be, assuming it's one that most people accept as being true, it won't surprise me but with the caveat mentioned in the previous paragraph.

 

[Aviador]

Personally I feel the pilot is probably responsible for the aircraft's disappearance and I think his actions have been planned, well thought through and coordinated. If we are to believe what we have been told so far, it would suggest to me he has carried out his actions almost to a check list. The turning off of the ACARS equipment, which is apparently difficult if not impossible to do from the flight deck. Then the turn back towards Malaysia and out towards the Indian Ocean where the aircraft will have become undetectable to radar equipment. To me this is not some Kamikaze pilot wishing to kill all and himself on-board. This is somebody making carefully calculated moves probably to take the aircraft somewhere that supports his cause.

Why has so little been said from the Chinese authorities considering the majority of the passengers on-board were Chinese?

Why didn't passengers attempt to contact relatives on the ground considering the aircraft was still flying near to populated areas where a signal should still have been accessible. During the 9/11 hijacking numerous passengers made mobile phone calls to tell relatives and loved ones of their fate?

Had the aircraft flown towards the northern route suggested by the authorities surely radar wouldn't have detected the aircraft if it was flying between the mountains?

If satellites had been "pinged" why haven't they been able to locate the aircraft using the "pings"?

The 777-200ER has excellent capabilities. With minimum fuel and maximum breaking applied, the aircraft can stop incredibly quickly making a smaller airfield landing possible. Having taken the actions he has already taken, he might have been willing to risk landing on a runway generally regarded as too short for the aircraft under normal conditions.

Some points to ponder over.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

The Malaysian authorities haven't helped themselves. There may be good reason why they've been reluctant to put much information into the public domain but it's becoming clear that they were aware very early in the incident of many things now being made public.

For example, as far back as last Monday there were press reports that a senior Malaysian military officer has said military radar had shown the aircraft veering significantly off course. The following day the senior military figure denied this was so. They now say it did happen. No wonder many people around the world, let alone the relatives of those on the aircraft, suspect that something may be being covered up.

Because it now seems the authorities had a strong suspicion for several days that this may not have been a tragic accident, it does seem odd, even negligent, that the homes of the flight crews were not searched much earlier. One scenario could have been, could be, that one or both pilots was acting under duress, possibly because of threats to people they hold dear, and an early search of their homes might have uncovered evidence to either rule this out or provide cause for further investigation.

 

[BSL-2km]

Really ? :nea:
that narrows it down a bit.... BS detected.. surely it can be determined whether a satellite was looking at the northern or southern hemisphere when it got the pings ??

Maybe Donal McIntyre knows where it is ? bloody hell.... might aswell ask the Fonz while they are at it. :s_cool

Uncle Sam can pinpoint targets and send in remote machines of death from the other side of the world whilst videoing it and watching from space, and this is the best that the collective world establishment can offer for a missing 777 with 239 people on-board. Dung of the highest toxicity. :reallyshocked:

Imagine how many aircraft systems send out data or signals, not even counting the tons of metal for more traditional detection methods. All those mobile phones, tablets, ipods and laptops, we all know that anything running android systems and microsoft OS especially windows 8 can be located anywhere in the world even if you try to disguise and hide your identity...
Are we to believe that Big Brother watches all except this area ? nonsense. :fool:

We are being lied to, duped and deceived at every level.
Folks gradually lose interest, as the next big story unfolds, most will just believe anything that they are told by media sources, some will be defiant and need expert opinions to convince them, whilst those who can see through the illusion are labeled radicals and conspiracy nuts, and will never be enough in numbers to make any difference, that is the system.