Norwegian Air Shuttle

[Ray Finkle]

Seems there is a little competition for the next Norwegian base.

A Tweet from Mr Kehoe:

well we will continue to court them. MAG got deeper pockets & size. BHX got the economy.

 

[User0001]

What on earth is Mr Kehoe waffling on about now?!

I know this is a BHX thread, but, firstly he needs to be careful as its not the first time he has made false accusations about MAN paying airlines off to fly there (deep pockets line).

Secondly, BHX has the economy over MAN??

Sorry, but BHX may have a good business base in its catchment, but the MAN catchment is far better at putting its money where its mouth is, its no accident MAN has the route structure and fare offerings it does.

Im sorry again, but that comment has really got my back. I expected better from an airport CEO making public comments like that, there is very little basis to 99.9% of what he said there.

Or maybe Mr Kehoe is trying a new routine of stand up comedy?

 

[Ray Finkle]

Please don't think I'm blindly defending Mr Kehoe as I'm not but this is my interpretation.


I do not see anywhere Mr Kehoe accusing MAN of 'paying off' airlines. He refers to 'deeper pockets' which I took to mean MAG are in a better position to offer more favourable start up incentives, it's no secret that MAN base fees are some of the cheapest in Europe whereas BHX's are some of the most expensive.

The reference to the economy I think takes into account the Greater Birmingham economy rather than just the airports (remember Twitter has a limited number of characters). In the last few days Greater Birmingham has seen over £1 billion worth of investment from JLR, HSBC announce it will move it's UK HQ from London to Birmingham along with significant expansion from the already established Deutsche Bank, Geely (LTI) are investing £250 million in their Coventry site and when you combine that with Birmingham being the UK leader in start up businesses with over 18,000 last year it's safe to say the Greater Birmingham economy is booming.

I agree that MAN serves it's local business community and that of 'The North' way better than BHX serves the Greater Birmingham area. MAN has spent many years telling people that they do not need to go anywhere else to fly as their local airport has more than enough options available and as a result MAN has a network that every airport outside of London envies. Consequently for those in the BHX area LHR is readily accessible and offers an unrivaled amount of destinations and frequencies and to this day it is the default option for many, indeed I still speak to people that are't aware that the likes of UA and EK serve BHX.

I've said on another thread that I think BHX needs a huge 'hearts and minds' campaign, lets tell the whole region that they don't need to go from LHR anymore! The network may not be huge but with United Airlines, American Airlines, Emirates, PIA, Air India and the likes of Lufthansa, Swiss, SAS, Air France, KLM, Brussels Airlines, Icelandair, Turkish, etc there is more than enough, lets ram it down peoples throats :aggressive:

 

[User0001]

Hi Ray,

I appriciate my rant was a bit strong, but, to me, it was clear what PK was saying. I will have to find them again, but I know of at least 3 quoted press articles in the past where he accused MAN of 'paying airlines to fly'. So, this comment on twitter, to me, was a continuation of that theme.

Secondly, I know tweets have limited characters, but it seemed like he was implying MAN routes were only viable thanks to the 'deep pockets', whereas those at BHX stood on their own feet thanks to higher yields (funny how just today a LDY route may come soon thanks to a subisdy, talk about irony).

If i had twitter, I would gladly show him the data that shows just how much higher yielding MAN is compared to BHX, but then again, he would probably just delete me for 'trolling' as i would show he is talking rubbish.

 

[andyc941]

Im supporter off both regional airports but this tweet by pk suggests that MAN has won NAS long haul routes to the USA and he is fighting it in court. PK seems to me that if an airport wins a route he accuses them off winning them because of a payout. I really cant see this with MAG they are a Businesse at the end off the day and all to make money not loose it through bribes. I hope all the NAS flights do really well from BHX this year and will be at BHX for the 1st flight

 

[Aviador]

Airports often refer to other airports as having "deeper pockets". This refers to the deals airports have with airlines to operate from their airport. Gone are the days when airlines just pay the set published landing and parking fees. It is inevitable airports such as Manchester airport has more buying power with airlines at the negotiation stage because Manchester airport is part of a much bigger group of airports. Airports like Manchester airport will be able to afford to offer reduced landing fees because of the sheer volume of traffic.

Looking back I can refer to Ryanair's move to Manchester. Initially, MOL said Manchester couldn't offer them the deal they wanted and the airport was too expensive. In retaliation MOL said he would fly from Cheaper airports such as Leeds Bradford Airport. Twelve months later and a deal was reached to open a substantial base at Manchester airport. Clearly MAnchester airport does have "deeper pockets" than many other regional airports.

 

[Aviador]

Im supporter off both regional airports but this tweet by [hi-lighty:1pi9t0sk]pk suggests that MAN has won NAS long haul routes to the USA and he is fighting it in court[/hi-lighty:1pi9t0sk]. PK seems to me that if an airport wins a route he accuses them off winning them because of a payout. I really cant see this with MAG they are a Businesse at the end off the day and all to make money not loose it through bribes. I hope all the NAS flights do really well from BHX this year and will be at BHX for the 1st flight

Hi Andyc941

Can this be confirmed because if that is the case then we all need to stop talking about it?

 

[andyc941]

Hi Aviador i did not say it was going to happen i wrote that the tweet from pk suggests that NAS want to start long haul from a regional airport and Man & BHX fighting over who should gain them.That was only my opinion and we all have one

 

[Ray Finkle]

I'd also be interested to know how this Tweet suggests that?? I've seen no mention of long haul or court battles but Aviador is right if it's true then all discussion needs to stop??

PK seems to me that if an airport wins a route he accuses them off winning them because of a payout. I really cant see this with MAG they are a Businesse at the end off the day and all to make money not loose it through bribes.

I can't tell you what to do but I'd be very careful of using words such as bribe, people have ended up in alot of trouble over posts on internet forums. I don't think for one minute Mr Kehoe is accusing anyone of anything illegal he's just suggesting than MAN is in a better position than BHX to do a deal.

Airports often refer to other airports as having "deeper pockets". This refers to the deals airports have with airlines to operate from their airport. Gone are the days when airlines just pay the set published landing and parking fees. It is inevitable airports such as Manchester airport has more buying power with airlines at the negotiation stage because Manchester airport is part of a much bigger group of airports. Airports like Manchester airport will be able to afford to offer reduced landing fees because of the sheer volume of traffic.

Exactly.

Everything is open to interpretation but to me the Tweet suggests nothing more than MAN is in a better position to offer more generous start up incentives, which is something that all airports do and is perfectly above board. In the first year or two when routes are growing these incentives could prove vital to any potential new base and it's a common assumption that BHX historically has been an expensive place to operate into, whether that has changed we shall see.

Getting back to BHX LN-NGI is en route from Madrid due in at 10:01, 19 mins early 🙂

 

[Aviador]

Seems there is a little competition for the next Norwegian base.

A Tweet from Mr Kehoe:

well we will continue to court them. MAG got deeper pockets & size. BHX got the economy.

This is how I read the PK tweet: "we will continue to talk to them. Manchester is in a better position to negotiate the financial terms with the airline but Birmingham is in a better geographical location because of the manufacturing industries surrounding the Birmingham region."

By the way, "to court" is a rather old fashioned term but it means "to please somebody in order to get something you want"

 

[Ray Finkle]

That's how I read it too.

By the way, "to court" is a rather old fashioned term but it means "to please somebody in order to get something you want"

Whenever my Mom used to talk about her and my Dad before they were married she'd always use the term 'when we were courting' 😆

 

[Aviador]

That's how I read it too.

By the way, "to court" is a rather old fashioned term but it means "to please somebody in order to get something you want"

Whenever my Mom used to talk about her and my Dad before they were married she'd always use the term 'when we were courting' 😆

Yep so did mine. I believe we're in the same age bracket (getting old now) 😆

 

[andyc941]

Seems there is a little competition for the next Norwegian base.

A Tweet from Mr Kehoe:

well we will continue to court them. MAG got deeper pockets & size. BHX got the economy.

Sorry guys i have miss read the post lol. I must be to young or daft i havent heard it before but now know what he is going on about

 

[Ray Finkle]

Well Norwegian are finally here, shame about the awful weather 🙂

Norwegian Air UK & I @NorwegianairUK · 2m 2 minutes ago
And hello @bhx_official lovely to see you for the first time. Here's to a great future!

Images from Norwegian Twitter.

 

[User0001]

Sorry to just quickly go back to this agin, but, didn't have a chance to reply to the subsiquent comments last night. And another sorry that this post seems MAN vs BHX, but, when BHX's CEO makes, in my opinion, quite antagonistic comments, it has to be done.

For me, the reason the twitter comment got my back was the choice of words used by PK, as, like I have said, this is not the first time he has made disparaging comments about MAN. Its twitter, he could have chose his words differently, hell, he could have chose not to comment at all, but, instead, he makes it seem like its an unfair battle against the 'deep pockets' of MAN. (reminds me of Bransons petty fights against BA to be honest).

He could have said 'we continue to discuss oppertunities with Norwegian', or something to that degree, but, no, he insinuates its an uphill battle due to MAN having an unfair advatge.

PK has, at least 3 times, refered to MAN as 'prostituting itself', by paying off airlines to fly to there (more on that later). Now, while I appricate twitter has limited characters so words have to be chosen carefully, By the way the comment was worded 'MAN hs deep pockets, BHX has the economy', was another dig on that theme.

The way it sounded, was that MAN can pay the airlines off, but BHX has the viable market to stand on their own 2 feet. The fact that MAN has 7.8 times more yield potential than BHX (based on CAA and PwC stats) and generates much more yield than BHX as is, must have fallen on deaf ears for Mr Kehoe. Airlines go to MAN for the potential, not because of, as Mr Kehoe states, an nice little incentive to start flights.

Like I said earlier, ironic his tweet came as the government made public that a new route from BHX can only begin if it gets a public payout incentive. Touche Mr Kehoe.

Now, for another comment:

Looking back I can refer to Ryanair's move to Manchester. Initially, MOL said Manchester couldn't offer them the deal they wanted and the airport was too expensive. In retaliation MOL said he would fly from Cheaper airports such as Leeds Bradford Airport. Twelve months later and a deal was reached to open a substantial base at Manchester airport. Clearly Manchester airport does have "deeper pockets" than many other regional airports.

Aviador,

If you remember rightly, Michael O'Leary stated he actually had to pay hgher fees than when Ryanair were last at MAN, and this is a man that would twist any story to save loosing face. So, not a case of 'deeper pockets' from MAN, but a case of tougher negotiations by MAN that meant Ryanair had to agree so that they could access the higher yield potential of MAN vs LPL.

So, Mr Kehoe, seems MAN also has 'the economy'. Instead of sputing off with such silly, false comments, maybe if he actually gets out there and encourages these business in his catchment to use BHX, and maybe then I would have even an ounce of patience for the man.

 

[andrew.clarkson]

Hi all, here we go again, with the subject of Manchester gaining more business than Birmingham airport, it's all down to those landing fees yet again, if Manchester airport is only charging 1,848.00 per any aircraft any size to land and take off and 5.50 per winter and 6.00 per summer season per passenger land and take off, compared to.Birminghams 4,000 to land and take off for one aircraft and 11.50 per passenger to land and take off, then you can see why Manchester is getting more yield than Birmingham, more than 2 to 1...that's why...andyc

 

[Aviador]

TheLocalYokel often refers to airports as being like rival football teams and this clearly shows today in this discussion. There will always be city vs city rivalry and it will inevitably show in the airport business these days when airports are fighting for the same traffic. For us here at least, it's important for us to remain sensible in discussion and not get too worked up about it all, afteral, it's just harmless tit for tat rivalry between airport managers nothing more.

 

[Ray Finkle]

First of Three Spanish Routes With Norwegian Take-off From Birmingham Airport

Norwegian, Europe’s third largest low-fare airline, has celebrated its inaugural flight to Madrid from Birmingham Airport today, the first of three Spanish routes set to launch this summer.

The first scheduled service to the Spanish capital, which will operate each Tuesday, Thursday and Sunday, was greeted into Birmingham with a water-arch salute on arrival and will be quickly followed by the launch of flights to Malaga on Monday 30th March.

The new service to Malaga will operate every Monday, Friday and Saturday and represents the second of three Spanish routes set to be served by Norwegian. The third and final service to Barcelona is set to commence on the 1st of June, flying each Monday and Friday.

David Winstanley, chief operating officer at Birmingham Airport, said: “Today is a double celebration – we’re celebrating the launch of direct flights to Madrid and welcoming Norwegian to Birmingham Airport.

“Madrid marks the first of three new Spanish routes set to be served by Norwegian from Birmingham, a clear indication of the enormous demand that exists for these popular destinations, which also includes Malaga and Barcelona.

David added: “We’re confident that our business and leisure passengers will be impressed with Norwegian’s low fares and efficient service.”

Chief Commercial Officer Thomas Ramdahl of Norwegian added: “We´re very happy to celebrate the new routes from Birmingham to several destinations in Spain. Now travellers in the greater Birmingham area can take advantage of Norwegian's low fares and award-winning service. Our crew is looking forward to welcoming new customers on board our brand new and more environmentally friendly fleet of Boeing 737-800 aircraft with free wifi.”

Norwegian will operate a 186 seat Boeing 737-800 aircraft, with a one service cabin and free wi-fi.

Tickets are available through http://www.norwegian.com or through travel agents.

Norwegian employs approximately 4500 people and operates 416 routes to 126 destinations in Europe, North Africa, the Middle East, Thailand and the US.

https://www.birminghamairport.co.uk/med ... m-airport/

 

[Seasider]

I've lost the plot, are Norwegian setting up a base or not? :search:

 

[Brummiegem]

Seasider.

Initially not exactly.A lot will depend on whether any more routes are added over the coming months.Also depends on how successful the first three routes are.As I understand it these routes are being operated from established bases,so basically we will have to see what happens in the near future.