A new airport.... South Yorkshire Airport City?

[pug]

I'm not sure where the money's going to come from though...

The loan if it’s passed on Monday. Then the Gainshare won’t matter, the airport will reopen (assuming costs don’t spiral!) then lose tonnes of money and be forced to close eventually.

 

[Seasider]

There is only one comment to make - sheer lunacy.

 

[Eusebius]

The loan if it’s passed on Monday. Then the Gainshare won’t matter, the airport will reopen (assuming costs don’t spiral!) then lose tonnes of money and be forced to close eventually.

I don't think £57m will be enough to get it open, even if the Section 151 officer signs off on it.

Anyway, Reform might yet do what needs to be done.

 

[Guppy]

According the the FreePress, Doncaster reform councillors met today with reform deputy leader, I assume to get advice, due to this becoming so political & public.

The article states: A spokesperson for Reform UK Doncaster said: “We outlined the group’s position and the concerns being raised by residents about transparency, borrowing, and the long-term financial implications for Doncaster taxpayers. “The meeting focussed on ensuring that any deal reached is sustainable, transparent, and delivers genuine value for local people.
“Reform councillors were all agreed that they support the reopening of DSA — but not at any cost, and not without proper scrutiny of the financial and legal arrangements involved.
“Negotiations remain ongoing. Reform says it will continue pressing for openness, accountability, and a solution that secures the airport’s future while protecting the public purse. “

 

[pug]

According the the FreePress, Doncaster reform councillors met today with reform deputy leader, I assume to get advice, due to this becoming so political & public.

The article states: A spokesperson for Reform UK Doncaster said: “We outlined the group’s position and the concerns being raised by residents about transparency, borrowing, and the long-term financial implications for Doncaster taxpayers. “The meeting focussed on ensuring that any deal reached is sustainable, transparent, and delivers genuine value for local people.
“Reform councillors were all agreed that they support the reopening of DSA — but not at any cost, and not without proper scrutiny of the financial and legal arrangements involved.
“Negotiations remain ongoing. Reform says it will continue pressing for openness, accountability, and a solution that secures the airport’s future while protecting the public purse. “

That could be read two ways. They seem to have dropped the ‘it should be a private investment’ to ‘openness and accountability’. So with that in mind what @Egyptian King might be correct. However let’s not forget it’s local elections time again and so there will be a keenness to avoid nailing their colours to the mast just yet. It is possible that this rumoured lady minute change of heart could be a last minute election tactic.

 

[Egyptian King]

Someone posted this if the £128m investment to the subsidy part of government

The subsidy report reveals a staggering £89m subsidy tied to this loan, based on a theoretical model that assumes FlyDoncaster will eventually reach a point where it begins to repay the principal.

This calculation underscores the significant financial bridge the public is providing to keep operations viable, but it rests entirely on the airport hitting specific, optimistic performance milestones. If FlyDoncaster fails to meet these projections and finds itself unable to repay the principal, the legal and financial liability rests squarely with the local authority. Because the council acts as the guarantor for this capital, any default effectively transfers the debt to the public accounts, meaning Doncaster taxpayers would ultimately be the ones to foot the bill for the shortfall.

In such a scenario, the loss of public funds would likely force the council to make difficult choices between cutting essential services or increasing local taxes to balance the books. This dynamic creates a high-stakes environment where the community’s financial health is inextricably linked to the commercial success of the airport.

Councillors should ask Oliver Coppard if the other three councils will underwrite the financial exposure.

 

[White Heather]

Although I can't read it as it's a premium article, the Yorkshire Post seems to be reporting today that Deform in Doncaster 'could' perform a (well practiced) u turn and not block the £57m loan, IF certain terms of the lease are changed. Of course, the bits that need changing are not specified in the bit I could see, but odds on, one will be the 20% of turnover to Peel, which Peel seem unlikely to give away. If so, this to me amounts to nothing more than trying to keep both sides onside, as they must know Peel are unlikely to give way which then would presumably lead to Deform blocking the loan.

More smoke and mirrors? There's so much smoke (and mirrors) in Doncaster council that the SY fire service should be on site the whole time. I have never before seen so much political deception and recklessness over a single project.

 

[Eusebius]

Although I can't read it as it's a premium article, the Yorkshire Post seems to be reporting today that Deform in Doncaster 'could' perform a (well practiced) u turn and not block the £57m loan, IF certain terms of the lease are changed. Of course, the bits that need changing are not specified in the bit I could see, but odds on, one will be the 20% of turnover to Peel, which Peel seem unlikely to give away. If so, this to me amounts to nothing more than trying to keep both sides onside, as they must know Peel are unlikely to give way which then would presumably lead to Deform blocking the loan.

More smoke and mirrors? There's so much smoke (and mirrors) in Doncaster council that the SY fire service should be on site the whole time. I have never before seen so much political deception and recklessness over a single project.

Yeah he's preparing to chicken out, basically. I don't really know why, probably something to do with Tice's idiotic interventions. The gist is he wants the lease renegotiated more or less in line with SYMCA's requirements. The passenger targets are already halved, and so the sticking point remains the 20% revenue skim. Copied and pasted:


Reform Doncaster deputy leader Coun Jason Charity has now told The Yorkshire Post that if these clauses can be resolved, then his party may no longer revoke the £57m loan.
He said: “We genuinely do want DSA to succeed but we have always said that depends on the deal.
“We’re trying to reach a position where some of the stuff is potentially coming out of the lease on negotiation, that makes the lease much more viable.
“There’s a lot of what I consider to be business rigor around the deal.
“If we can land on something then there could be an amendment, and that would prevent the loan from being rescinded. It is very back and forth, it’s definitely very fluid.
“We continue to be in active discussions with the council. We maintain the view that we are pro DSA, we want it to work, but we’ve got to tune the deal to make sure it’s a viable business proposition.”


The trouble is, as I said before, the disastrous lease is a secondary issue. The problem is there is no demand, because DSA is boxed in by Manchester, Leeds Bradford and East Midlands, all of whom have eaten DSA's lunch while it's been closed.

It's all just ridiculous. Why press for the passenger and cargo thresholds to be lowered? If DSA can't muster a pathetic 1.1m passengers and 13,000 tonnes of cargo - still well below what's needed for commercial viability, then what's the point?

It's possible that Reform have concluded that the red audit rating and the conditional MCA funding will kill the project anyway, regardless of what happens on Monday. But they're back to lending their support to a massively expensive unviable project that they ought to be opposing. Otherwise what is the point of Reform if they're just going to enable Labour's waste and incompetence?

 

[White Heather]

Yeah he's preparing to chicken out, basically. I don't really know why, probably something to do with Tice's idiotic interventions. The gist is he wants the lease renegotiated more or less in line with SYMCA's requirements. The passenger targets are already halved, and so the sticking point remains the 20% revenue skim. Copied and pasted:


Reform Doncaster deputy leader Coun Jason Charity has now told The Yorkshire Post that if these clauses can be resolved, then his party may no longer revoke the £57m loan.
He said: “We genuinely do want DSA to succeed but we have always said that depends on the deal.
“We’re trying to reach a position where some of the stuff is potentially coming out of the lease on negotiation, that makes the lease much more viable.
“There’s a lot of what I consider to be business rigor around the deal.
“If we can land on something then there could be an amendment, and that would prevent the loan from being rescinded. It is very back and forth, it’s definitely very fluid.
“We continue to be in active discussions with the council. We maintain the view that we are pro DSA, we want it to work, but we’ve got to tune the deal to make sure it’s a viable business proposition.”


The trouble is, as I said before, the disastrous lease is a secondary issue. The problem is there is no demand, because DSA is boxed in by Manchester, Leeds Bradford and East Midlands, all of whom have eaten DSA's lunch while it's been closed.

It's all just ridiculous. Why press for the passenger and cargo thresholds to be lowered? If DSA can't muster a pathetic 1.1m passengers and 13,000 tonnes of cargo - still well below what's needed for commercial viability, then what's the point?

It's possible that Reform have concluded that the red audit rating and the conditional MCA funding will kill the project anyway, regardless of what happens on Monday. But they're back to lending their support to a massively expensive unviable project that they ought to be opposing. Otherwise what is the point of Reform if they're just going to enable Labour's waste and incompetence?

The reduced passenger target amounts to around one third of the throughput that Peel stated was needed for DSA to break even. (If I remember correctly).

I often wonder too if CDC=FlyDoncaster have budgeted for the ongoing running costs brought about by changes in legislation (which ofen cannot be forecast) and ongoing essential airfield maintenance that can crop up unexpectedly. I hope that besides their budget for reopening and ongoing running costs, they have allowed for contingencies, because odds on, at some point, they will be needed. Otherwise, yet more borrowing.

 

[Eusebius]

The reduced passenger target amounts to around one third of the throughput that Peel stated was needed for DSA to break even. (If I remember correctly).

Yes, Reform's position makes no sense, as usual. They're arguing for already subterranean passenger thresholds to be lowered further, to get rid of the break clause problem. But in doing so they re-emphasise that the airport is spectacularly unviable by the council's own no doubt optimistic projections.

Reform are demanding "business rigour" while simultaneously demanding the business targets be lowered to the point of absolute commercial irrelevance.

Taxpayers' only hope is Grant Thornton now. They might be more serious about it.

 

[Egyptian King]

Reform have agreed tobight to vote the funding through with not nearly as many conditions, they want Labour to fail makong the council easy to win on 2029 is what Tice believes

 

[White Heather]

Reform have agreed tobight to vote the funding through with not nearly as many conditions, they want Labour to fail makong the council easy to win on 2029 is what Tice believes

By which time the council could be bankrupt, and their vote will make them partly culpable. This u turn is pure cowardice. They are selling out the council coffers to try and stay popular.

 

[Eusebius]

By which time the council could be bankrupt, and their vote will make them partly culpable. This u turn is pure cowardice. They are selling out the council coffers to try and stay popular.

Reform have been every bit as foolish and incompetent as Labour throughout, due in large measure to Richard Tice's interventions. It was Tice who got on the phone and told councillors to vote the loan through back in November, if I remember rightly.

This project has just been given a red rating by the auditor for governance AND financial structure. This won't have been the first warning, it'll just be the first one Jones's team can't hide. All concerned, including Reform, are now knowingly pursuing a project they are well aware is a financial suicide mission. None of them can pretend they are doing this in good faith.

Again, what is the point of Reform if they are just going to facilitate waste, incompetence and public sector grift like this?

Edit: here it is again, this bizarre tacit assumption that reopening DSA will unquestionably lead to an economic miracle!

Peel has opportunity to seize goodwill on Doncaster Sheffield Airport

The Doncaster Sheffield Airport (DSA) reopening saga has rumbled on long enough. It is clear that the site presents a huge opportunity to supercharge South Yorkshire’s economy. While at the same time the risks associated with the project are also apparent.

www.yorkshirepost.co.uk

WHY? This leader column proves that the local media is trapped in the exact same emotional echo chamber as the Labour executive. They have completely ignored Grant Thornton's 'Red' rating, and they have ignored the slashed passenger projections. They are just blindly repeating the mantra: Airport = Good, Therefore We Must Have Airport.

Regional airports like Doncaster do not "supercharge" a local economy. They are actually a massive economic drain.
When a regional airport relies on budget airlines like Wizz Air and TUI, it is not bringing rich international investors into South Yorkshire. It is taking thousands of Doncastrians and flying their disposable income directly to Alicante, Tenerife, and Magaluf. The money leaves the local economy. The only "jobs" it creates locally are a handful of minimum-wage barista roles in the departure lounge and some car park attendants. That does not supercharge a region; it just subsidises cheap holidays with taxpayer debt.

It is the Soviet Tractor Factory, not an economic supercharger!

 

[pug]

Reform have been every bit as foolish and incompetent as Labour throughout, due in large measure to Richard Tice's interventions. It was Tice who got on the phone and told councillors to vote the loan through back in November, if I remember rightly.

This project has just been given a red rating by the auditor for governance AND financial structure. This won't have been the first warning, it'll just be the first one Jones's team can't hide. All concerned, including Reform, are now knowingly pursuing a project they are well aware is a financial suicide mission. None of them can pretend they are doing this in good faith.

Again, what is the point of Reform if they are just going to facilitate waste, incompetence and public sector grift like this?

Edit: here it is again, this bizarre tacit assumption that reopening DSA will unquestionably lead to an economic miracle!

Peel has opportunity to seize goodwill on Doncaster Sheffield Airport

The Doncaster Sheffield Airport (DSA) reopening saga has rumbled on long enough. It is clear that the site presents a huge opportunity to supercharge South Yorkshire’s economy. While at the same time the risks associated with the project are also apparent.

www.yorkshirepost.co.uk

WHY? This leader column proves that the local media is trapped in the exact same emotional echo chamber as the Labour executive. They have completely ignored Grant Thornton's 'Red' rating, and they have ignored the slashed passenger projections. They are just blindly repeating the mantra: Airport = Good, Therefore We Must Have Airport.

Regional airports like Doncaster do not "supercharge" a local economy. They are actually a massive economic drain.
When a regional airport relies on budget airlines like Wizz Air and TUI, it is not bringing rich international investors into South Yorkshire. It is taking thousands of Doncastrians and flying their disposable income directly to Alicante, Tenerife, and Magaluf. The money leaves the local economy. The only "jobs" it creates locally are a handful of minimum-wage barista roles in the departure lounge and some car park attendants. That does not supercharge a region; it just subsidises cheap holidays with taxpayer debt.

It is the Soviet Tractor Factory, not an economic supercharger!

The blind leading the blind leading the blind. I think Peel have shown a lot of goodwill so far, so wonder how this discussion over turnover will go down. We’ve been told all along that it was the terms of the lease that deterred private investors, but the lease terms are designed solely to deter Doncaster Council from being the operator!

The public will get what they deserve.

 

[Eusebius]

The public will get what they deserve.

Will they? The public has been misled, lied to, and hoodwinked.

I think the perceived public support is another tacit assumption that should be tested. Just like this frankly whacko assertion that reopening the airport will result in an economic miracle, someone should assess whether the public would still go along with this if they were told the truth about it and told what else could be done with £193m.

Ball's in Reform's court now. They're doing very well for themselves at the moment and Doncaster is supposedly their flagship council. Promising to put a stop to exactly this kind of idiotic public sector waste and incompetence, halting these gravy trains for grifiting lanyard wearers, is exactly what's bringing them success.

 

[Dsa-Realist]

Will they? The public has been misled, lied to, and hoodwinked.

I think the perceived public support is another tacit assumption that should be tested. Just like this frankly whacko assertion that reopening the airport will result in an economic miracle, someone should assess whether the public would still go along with this if they were told the truth about it and told what else could be done with £193m.

Ball's in Reform's court now. They're doing very well for themselves at the moment and Doncaster is supposedly their flagship council. Promising to put a stop to exactly this kind of idiotic public sector waste and incompetence, halting these gravy trains for grifiting lanyard wearers, is exactly what's bringing them success.

Unfortunately the vast majority of my fellow dwellers in Doncaster couldn’t care less about the economic business case. They selfishly just want an airport in their doorstep to get cheap flights to cheap places. Their attitude is that it’s government money, despite there being no such thing. Former council officials on the mechanics forum spout that it isn’t Council tax payers money and that it’s gainshare etc. The lemmings of Doncaster don’t even question that fact that the only income government has to distribute to the devolved areas is taxation! Unfortunately nobody will ever win over this mindset — such as the gathering on Monday to show councillors how they feel. This isn’t the 1980’s with threatening picket lines and I doubt very much a few lemming locals will upset any reform councillors.

The mechanic has amused me with his ramblings about reform leaving messages on their page that are derogatory about him and his campaign. He doesn’t seem to understand the difference between reasonable opinion and potentially criminal death threats! I’m so embarrassed to be from Doncaster.

 

[pug]

Will they? The public has been misled, lied to, and hoodwinked.

I think the perceived public support is another tacit assumption that should be tested. Just like this frankly whacko assertion that reopening the airport will result in an economic miracle, someone should assess whether the public would still go along with this if they were told the truth about it and told what else could be done with £193m.

Ball's in Reform's court now. They're doing very well for themselves at the moment and Doncaster is supposedly their flagship council. Promising to put a stop to exactly this kind of idiotic public sector waste and incompetence, halting these gravy trains for grifiting lanyard wearers, is exactly what's bringing them success.

Well when the external auditors flag it as high risk but the public still vocally support reopening then yes, they support it they can own it when it fails.

Reform can do what they like and they’ll make gains, it’s the sad state of affairs we find ourselves in. They’ll make far worse decisions than approving the loan for DSA. In fact the financial, social and political fallout from it will dwarf the same problems DSA will bring.

There’s this poorly written piece by the Yorkshire Post.

Doncaster Sheffield Airport: Councillors unimpressed after last minute behind-closed-doors meeting

A last-minute meeting between senior officials and city councillors on a critical vote for the reopening of Doncaster Sheffield Airport has fallen flat, sources suggest.

www.yorkshirepost.co.uk

Lots of anonymous quotes. Basically it’s not needed but if they don’t go ahead it would damage confidence or something. So just throw the money at it and hope some of it sticks. Crucially though effectively no new lease if I’m interpreting it correctly.

 

[Eusebius]

Well when the external auditors flag it as high risk but the public still vocally support reopening then yes, they support it they can own it when it fails.

Are the public still vocally supporting it? A small group of noisy communists are, but I'm not convinced they're representative. Furthermore, that red rating from Grant Thornton has been reported so quietly it's frankly weird. In fact, I think it only received passing mention in one YP article that might even have been behind a pay wall (I'm a subscriber). I'll bet anything you like most people in Donny are completely unaware of the auditor's verdict and probably wouldn't understand its significance anyway.

This is why I say they're being misled and hoodwinked. This morning there was more BS about how the airport will supercharge the economy and claptrap like that. Nothing about the red flag from the auditor or the pathetic passenger forecasts, nothing about the Airspace Change Proposal still stuck at Stage 1 of 7, nothing about the fact that they've still got nothing more than a runway and a carpark after four years and however many millions spaffed away. No demand? No problem, that doesn't matter! The toxic lease? A small cosmetic issue!

No one can reasonably argue that this will be anything other than a financial disaster even if they actually manage to get it open, yet it's being pursued with religious fervour by the ruling clan. Grant Thornton red flagging it? Never mind that. The S151 officer from a neighbouring council issuing dire warnings? What does he know! One million passengers by 2037 if we're lucky? You see! A roaring success!

I think if people knew the truth they'd be out with their pitchforks.

Edit: At it AGAIN, publishing this propaganda uncritically:

Doncaster Sheffield Airport: 80 businesses unite to call for re-opening

Eighty Doncaster businesses have signed a joint letter calling on City of Doncaster councillors not to rescind on a deal to re-open Doncaster Sheffield Airport.

www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk

Eighty businesses out of how many in Doncaster? 10,000? 15,000?

Then we look at the list of names...!

This isn't a plea for civic pride, it is a lobbying document from private companies demanding that the taxpayer absorb 100% of the financial risk so they can secure local procurement contracts and subsidised operating bases.

Dan Fell says "A reversal would be deeply damaging to investor confidence." That is completely backwards. What genuinely terrifies serious institutional investors and private capital is, as Heather said earlier, a bankrupt council. If a multi-national company is looking to invest in South Yorkshire, they look at the local authority's balance sheet. If they see a council that ignored its external auditors, maxed out its credit limit, and sank £200m into a commercially unviable airport, they will run a mile. Because a bankrupt council means crumbling local infrastructure and inevitably soaring taxes to cover the debt.

If these 80 local businesses are convinced that reopening this airport is a guaranteed "economic miracle" that will supercharge the region then why don't they fund it themselves? If 80 companies formed a syndicate, they would only need to put up about £700,000 each to cover the £57m loan. But they will not risk a single penny of their own private capital because they know the Grant Thornton red rating is correct. It is the ultimate capitalist grift: privatise the profits, socialise the risk. Let the taxpayer take out the £57m loan, and we will just skim the procurement contracts off the top.

This is why the public aren't getting it. Look at the headlines and it's all, local businesses support reopening the airport! Major Milestone Reached! Airport Supercharges Local Economy! etc etc.

 

[pug]

Are the public still vocally supporting it? A small group of noisy communists are, but I'm not convinced they're representative. Furthermore, that red rating from Grant Thornton has been reported so quietly it's frankly weird. In fact, I think it only received passing mention in one YP article that might even have been behind a pay wall (I'm a subscriber). I'll bet anything you like most people in Donny are completely unaware of the auditor's verdict and probably wouldn't understand its significance anyway.

This is why I say they're being misled and hoodwinked. This morning there was more BS about how the airport will supercharge the economy and claptrap like that. Nothing about the red flag from the auditor or the pathetic passenger forecasts, nothing about the Airspace Change Proposal still stuck at Stage 1 of 7, nothing about the fact that they've still got nothing more than a runway and a carpark after four years and however many millions spaffed away. No demand? No problem, that doesn't matter! The toxic lease? A small cosmetic issue!

No one can reasonably argue that this will be anything other than a financial disaster even if they actually manage to get it open, yet it's being pursued with religious fervour by the ruling clan. Grant Thornton red flagging it? Never mind that. The S151 officer from a neighbouring council issuing dire warnings? What does he know! One million passengers by 2037 if we're lucky? You see! A roaring success!

I think if people knew the truth they'd be out with their pitchforks.

Edit: At it AGAIN, publishing this propaganda uncritically:

Doncaster Sheffield Airport: 80 businesses unite to call for re-opening

Eighty Doncaster businesses have signed a joint letter calling on City of Doncaster councillors not to rescind on a deal to re-open Doncaster Sheffield Airport.

www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk

Eighty businesses out of how many in Doncaster? 10,000? 15,000?

Then we look at the list of names...!

This isn't a plea for civic pride, it is a lobbying document from private companies demanding that the taxpayer absorb 100% of the financial risk so they can secure local procurement contracts and subsidised operating bases.

Dan Fell says "A reversal would be deeply damaging to investor confidence." That is completely backwards. What genuinely terrifies serious institutional investors and private capital is, as Heather said earlier, a bankrupt council. If a multi-national company is looking to invest in South Yorkshire, they look at the local authority's balance sheet. If they see a council that ignored its external auditors, maxed out its credit limit, and sank £200m into a commercially unviable airport, they will run a mile. Because a bankrupt council means crumbling local infrastructure and inevitably soaring taxes to cover the debt.

If these 80 local businesses are convinced that reopening this airport is a guaranteed "economic miracle" that will supercharge the region then why don't they fund it themselves? If 80 companies formed a syndicate, they would only need to put up about £700,000 each to cover the £57m loan. But they will not risk a single penny of their own private capital because they know the Grant Thornton red rating is correct. It is the ultimate capitalist grift: privatise the profits, socialise the risk. Let the taxpayer take out the £57m loan, and we will just skim the procurement contracts off the top.

This is why the public aren't getting it. Look at the headlines and it's all, local businesses support reopening the airport! Major Milestone Reached! Airport Supercharges Local Economy! etc etc.

To people like Dan Fell and the 80 or so businesses it will be transformative, particularly when the direct flights to China, Singapore and Kazerbaijan start taking off from there. Having an airport the scale of even somewhere like Birmingham would have a catalytic impact on Gateway East and probably create those thousands of jobs. Particularly when LBA and EMA capitulate, and when the airlines change their operating ethos to an extent where Doncaster becomes highly attractive.

There’s a catchment area of some 6 million people within an hours drive don’t you know! So in theory it should succeed, right?

If it had any hope of being that economic engine I’d be fully on board. But honestly people like Dan Fell can only work with what they’ve been told, and what they’ve been told is that the airport will deliver on those things. Commercial sensitivity creates a convenient smokescreen to enable them to push on with this experiment in trying to prove their own theory right against the odds. What they’ve may have failed to consider is that airlines will want certainty as much as possible that the airport won’t flop again, how much is available to underwrite losses to ensure these airlines are comfortable enough to have another shot at it? The people negotiating with airlines are, I have no doubt, quite naive to it all. That is if MAI are no longer involved. So the airlines will say come back to us when you’ve got everything in place, then we can start talking. But talk is cheap. We have the stats that prove that the demand for flights from DSA to key business destinations doesn’t exist. It’s an awkward reality that the less scrupulous consultants have probably glossed over.

You’re absolutely right, a bankrupt council deters investors and damages confidence. We’re now being told this is why some Reform councillors may have had another change of heart. What of those local businesses that see it first what it is? That see the money being pumped into it when they know it should be invested in other things? How will they feel when the airport bankrupts the council later down the line?

The public enquiry will be an interesting watch. I really hope these people are held to account.

 

[Guppy]

Documents have now been released prior to Mondays meeting https://doncaster.moderngov.co.uk/ieListDocuments.aspx?CId=130&MId=5160