A new airport.... South Yorkshire Airport City?

[Speedbird1]

You’re right to question it. I think Statto might have been a bit pedantic.

I’ve seen the floor plans and glossy terminal revamp pics and to give them credit it does look a bit better than it did previously. Of course you need airlines to bring the passengers through it to actually use it but credit where it’s due. It was a nice airport to use, and I did support it when it was open by using it when flights I wanted were on offer. I do however remember being one of 25 people (I was in a group of 5) heading to Berlin with Flybe for a mates 40th long weekend. 25 people on a 110 seat E-jet. It was very cheap too. Thanks Peel!

You’re right to question it. I think Statto might have been a bit pedantic.

I’ve seen the floor plans and glossy terminal revamp pics and to give them credit it does look a bit better than it did previously. Of course you need airlines to bring the passengers through it to actually use it but credit where it’s due. It was a nice airport to use, and I did support it when it was open by using it when flights I wanted were on offer. I do however remember being one of 25 people (I was in a group of 5) heading to Berlin with Flybe for a mates 40th long weekend. 25 people on a 110 seat E-jet. It was very cheap too. Thanks Peel!

They now claim on the website that not only do they have the cargo carrier but also positive discussions with multiple airlines, including basing aircraft.

I’d treat this with the same respect as the cargo interest to be honest.

 

[pug]

They now claim on the website that not only do they have the cargo carrier but also positive discussions with multiple airlines, including basing aircraft.

I’d treat this with the same respect as the cargo interest to be honest.

Well they’d better hope they can deliver.

 

[Eusebius]

They now claim on the website that not only do they have the cargo carrier but also positive discussions with multiple airlines, including basing aircraft.

I’d treat this with the same respect as the cargo interest to be honest.

It'll come down to how much money they're offing. The airlines will know the council are desperate, so they can name their price.

This £128m must be like the magic porridge pot!

What DSA's competitors will think of this remains to be seen.

 

[pug]

It'll come down to how much money they're offing. The airlines will know the council are desperate, so they can name their price.

This £128m must be like the magic porridge pot!

What DSA's competitors will think of this remains to be seen.

It’s almost inevitable that at least a couple of airlines will offer something, whether it’s a token someting or not remains to be seen. Obviously TUI are keen to go back in some form, Wizzair are doubtful at the moment given the drop in demand for Eastern European destinations in general. They might even get Ryanair flying to Alicante 3 x weekly. But none of this will pay the bills, it’ll just be a photo opportunity and patting on the backs.

I am genuinely intrigued as to whether they will be able to pull a few rabbits out of the hat. Given the woeful performance of anything not seasonal sun or niche Eastern European last time around I do not believe anything has improved drastically. However attracting a big name like easyJet with a genuine commitment to deliver could sway things if they could generate their own market a bit like TUI did. It’s very high risk though, as seen at Southend you lose one major player and your passenger numbers, and consequently revenue, is slashed over night. I’d argue very high risk of that occurs considering it happened a few times during DSA 1.0.

 

[752]

Mayor announced a fancy make over of the terminal (not sure with what money) but another good news story for the weekend!!

 

[pug]

Mayor announced a fancy make over of the terminal (not sure with what money) but another good news story for the weekend!!

‘Good news’ bombing? It’s hard to tell these days but they often put out a slurry of positive news when they’re trying to cover up something not so positive.

 

[Egyptian King]

‘Good news’ bombing? It’s hard to tell these days but they often put out a slurry of positive news when they’re trying to cover up something not so positive.

You mean the long faces in council house because it looks like Peel when move on the rent clause

 

[pug]

You mean the long faces in council house because it looks like Peel when move on the rent clause

Or SYMCA house. Why would Peel budge if they’ve already been told the council are locked in through fear of bankruptcy if they’ve already pull the plug?

For what it’s worth I think they will, but they’ll do so in a way that sees them still pulling in the same revenue every year. Meanwhile the only statement they’ve made in around four years mentions nothing about the airport, rather it does talk about unlocking the strategic potential of Gateway East in cooperation with CDC and SYMCA. Sometimes it’s what they don’t say that tells you the most!

 

[Eusebius]

Grant Thornton's red rating mentioned in the very last paragraph!

Doncaster Sheffield Airport: Why turnover rent clause negotiations are so vital to reopening project

The Doncaster Sheffield Airport reopening project is progressing after Reform councillors backed down from plans to cancel a £57m council loan. But the future of the scheme is still dependent on changing the controversial airport lease with landowner Peel. Chris Burn reports.

www.yorkshirepost.co.uk

All very weird.

 

[pug]

Grant Thornton's red rating mentioned in the very last paragraph!

Doncaster Sheffield Airport: Why turnover rent clause negotiations are so vital to reopening project

The Doncaster Sheffield Airport reopening project is progressing after Reform councillors backed down from plans to cancel a £57m council loan. But the future of the scheme is still dependent on changing the controversial airport lease with landowner Peel. Chris Burn reports.

www.yorkshirepost.co.uk

All very weird.

Silly SYMCA, doing their own cast iron due diligence and forgetting about the advanced manufacturing and sustainable aviation park. Maybe it’s because there’s one just 20 miles down the motorway perhaps and so whoever advised SYMCA maybe said that it wasn’t actually likely to come to fruition?

I agree, the article should have started with the Grant Thornton findings.

 

[Eusebius]

Silly SYMCA, doing their own cast iron due diligence and forgetting about the advanced manufacturing and sustainable aviation park. Maybe it’s because there’s one just 20 miles down the motorway perhaps and so whoever advised SYMCA maybe said that it wasn’t actually likely to come to fruition?

I agree, the article should have started with the Grant Thornton findings.

The Yorkshire Post are publishing Jones's propaganda. They wrote in a leader just the other day that no one disputes the economic case for reopening the airport. Er, yes they do - up to and including the council's own auditor!

One of the problems within the council appears to be that no one understands the sunk cost fallacy. A Conservative councillor - name escapes me, someone Allen - said, in essence, that they'll look silly if they stop because it'll cost £48m.

I see. So we'll just carry on and blow £128m then!

 

[pug]

The Yorkshire Post are publishing Jones's propaganda. They wrote in a leader just the other day that no one disputes the economic case for reopening the airport. Er, yes they do - up to and including the council's own auditor!

One of the problems within the council appears to be that no one understands the sunk cost fallacy. A Conservative councillor - name escapes me, someone Allen - said, in essence, that they'll look silly if they stop because it'll cost £48m.

I see. So we'll just carry on and blow £128m then!

It’s a convenient echo chamber. I wonder how they’ll make it all look like it’s not being a huge drain on resources when they get it open, assuming they fail to secure enough business for it to surpass previous performance levels.

 

[Statto]

As someone without a dog in this particular fight, I think the YP have done a pretty good job. The supporter's echo chamber think they are massively critical and on the payroll of LBA and the opposition echo chamber is convinced they are puffing it all up. Which probably means they are doing a good job

 

[Eusebius]

As someone without a dog in this particular fight, I think the YP have done a pretty good job. The supporter's echo chamber think they are massively critical and on the payroll of LBA and the opposition echo chamber is convinced they are puffing it all up. Which probably means they are doing a good job

I haven't got a dog in the fight, but I can't agree with that. The mechanic moans if anyone does anything except parrot his nonsense. But the Yorkshire Post are making hardly any mention of the huge flaws in the project and are publishing propaganda uncritically.

The correct headline for the article I linked to above is, Auditors Condemn Financially Unviable Airport Plan Requiring Implausible Passenger Growth. Not the usual claptrap about said unviable airport undoubtedly, certainly leading to a miraculous economic transformation of the entire region! The closest I've seen to a critical comment is that the project requires scrutiny. Well, it's been scrutinised and found badly wanting. So report that!

It stands to reason. Why is blowing a few hundred million pounds on a failed airport in a saturated local market going to lead to an economic miracle?

 

[pug]

I haven't got a dog in the fight, but I can't agree with that. The mechanic moans if anyone does anything except parrot his nonsense. But the Yorkshire Post are making hardly any mention of the huge flaws in the project and are publishing propaganda uncritically.

The correct headline for the article I linked to above is, Auditors Condemn Financially Unviable Airport Plan Requiring Implausible Passenger Growth. Not the usual claptrap about said unviable airport undoubtedly, certainly leading to a miraculous economic transformation of the entire region! The closest I've seen to a critical comment is that the project requires scrutiny. Well, it's been scrutinised and found badly wanting. So report that!

It stands to reason. Why is blowing a few hundred million pounds on a failed airport in a saturated local market going to lead to an economic miracle?

I agree completely. Whilst the YP did run a few articles, particularly when they received a leaked copy of the lease, all they appear to have done is continue to champion the airport as an economic driver and not question the viability of it. Again sweating the small stuff, digging into the fine print and reporting on the political differences but never actually bothering to do some proper investigative stuff into whether the airport is needed, how the council and SYMCA have concluded that it is viable and why it justifies hundreds of millions of tax payers money investing into it. That is the problem, not whether they’re appeasing LBA or appeasing a mechanics campaign group. It should never have been about that. It should always be about whether other uses of the land would generate the desired outcome without tying the tax payers money investing into something that is odds on to be a heavy perennial loss maker which will probably be forced to close again.

Neutrality in the face of bad data is a failure of journalism.

 

[pug]

This absolute gem popped up.

Minimum wage report highlights 'importance of reopening Doncaster Sheffield Airport'

Nearly one in eight workers in Doncaster is paid the National Living Wage - £12.71 per hour - twice the UK average and more than four times as many as in Cambridge.

www.yorkshirepost.co.uk

We’re in the realms of abject stupidity again. Airline economics fundamentally requires high earners who travel frequently. Same time most airport jobs are minimum wage shift work and can be heavily seasonally weighted due to fluctuations in demand. At no point has the person writing this article bothered to apply any critical thought to this whatsoever, at no point have they thought that perhaps Peel were correct when they called it commercially unviable, they did so because the catchment area couldn’t support it. The catchment area couldn’t support it because of the low wages relative to other parts of the UK meaning there isn’t that high discretionary spend required to support an airport. Even Coppard has said this in the article, yet he’s simultaneously expecting airlines to flock there?

Airports do not drive economies, they facilitate them. If you want a strong regional economy you have to build one so that the people living in the area can afford to travel more frequently. Spaffing your entire allocation of funding designed to generate economic growth on an airport (particularly one that closed already) is the definition of lunacy.

 

[Eusebius]

This absolute gem popped up.

Minimum wage report highlights 'importance of reopening Doncaster Sheffield Airport'

Nearly one in eight workers in Doncaster is paid the National Living Wage - £12.71 per hour - twice the UK average and more than four times as many as in Cambridge.

www.yorkshirepost.co.uk

We’re in the realms of abject stupidity again. Airline economics fundamentally requires high earners who travel frequently. Same time most airport jobs are minimum wage shift work and can be heavily seasonally weighted due to fluctuations in demand. At no point has the person writing this article bothered to apply any critical thought to this whatsoever, at no point have they thought that perhaps Peel were correct when they called it commercially unviable, they did so because the catchment area couldn’t support it. The catchment area couldn’t support it because of the low wages relative to other parts of the UK meaning there isn’t that high discretionary spend required to support an airport. Even Coppard has said this in the article, yet he’s simultaneously expecting airlines to flock there?

Airports do not drive economies, they facilitate them. If you want a strong regional economy you have to build one so that the people living in the area can afford to travel more frequently. Spaffing your entire allocation of funding designed to generate economic growth on an airport (particularly one that closed already) is the definition of lunacy.

They're just publishing wishful thinking, propaganda and BS again, uncritically. "The reopening of DSA will bring around 5,000 jobs in aviation, freight, and advanced manufacturing to our community." How on earth is it going to do that? If you relocated Manchester Airport to Doncaster then perhaps it might!

It'll create a small number of well paid jobs for airport bosses, a few poorly paid ones for baggage handlers, baristas, cleaners and so on, and will just make it slightly easier and more convenient for Terry and June from Armthorpe to spend their savings in Alicante once a year. At a cost of £300m - £400m. Maybe more if you factor in the cost of upgrading the grid.

I think the real reason we're reading all this crap is because there's no Plan B. If blowing all their money on the failed airport doesn't bring about an economic miracle, then there's no backup plan.

 

[pug]

They're just publishing wishful thinking, propaganda and BS again, uncritically. "The reopening of DSA will bring around 5,000 jobs in aviation, freight, and advanced manufacturing to our community." How on earth is it going to do that? If you relocated Manchester Airport to Doncaster then perhaps it might!

It'll create a small number of well paid jobs for airport bosses, a few poorly paid ones for baggage handlers, baristas, cleaners and so on, and will just make it slightly easier and more convenient for Terry and June from Armthorpe to spend their savings in Alicante once a year. At a cost of £300m - £400m. Maybe more if you factor in the cost of upgrading the grid.

I think the real reason we're reading all this crap is because there's no Plan B. If blowing all their money on the failed airport doesn't bring about an economic miracle, then there's no backup plan.

There was one person at some point suggested that their stated GVA was the same as the economic impact Gatwick has. It’s fanciful rubbish.

They’re trying to fit the square peg into the round hole not because it’s economically the right thing to do, not because it’s going to be financially viable, but because a city region the size of South Yorkshire should have an airport. They probably know it’s going to be a flop requiring more money in ten years time (if not before) but it won’t be their problem by then.

They know all of this, this is what makes it so much worse!

 

[pug]

MediaCity can be blueprint for development around Doncaster Sheffield Airport site, suggests Peel director

Infrastructure giant Peel can repeat the success of its MediaCity development in Salford with its regeneration plans for 1,700 acres of land surrounding Doncaster Sheffield Airport, a company director has suggested.

www.yorkshirepost.co.uk

Quite an interesting article. Seems Coppard has been to the UK Real Estate and Infrastructure Forum in Leeds again, this time with Ros Jones rather than Damien Allen. Peels associate director of partnerships is quoted as talking of their plans for Gateway East being akin to Media City in Salford. They are close to signing an agreement with a house builder for first phase Hurstwood. She also talks of the Central plaza and bringing in jobs for local people. She doesn’t appear to mention the airport at all.

Meanwhile Coppard is quoted as using the AMRC example of how they created a cluster based on their own stipulations of what they wanted on the site, he’s tying that to what he wants to see at Gateway East (SAF and sustainable aviation). Still looks to me like Peel will probably paying lip service to that, but ultimately they just need anchor tenants regardless of what industry they’re tied to. Coppard and Jones clearly trying to target aviation related industry to justify the investment in reopening DSA.

Shame that the Yorkshire Post don’t appear to have picked up on this. No surprises though.

 

[Eusebius]

Hang on, it's 6,000 jobs now! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Doncaster Sheffield Airport: Oliver Coppard 'would love' trams to serve reopened airport

Oliver Coppard says he wants trams to eventually serve the reopened Doncaster Sheffield Airport.

www.yorkshirepost.co.uk

Hilarious.