Leeds Bradford Airport’s Expansion Plans Under Public Inquiry

[White Heather]

The CLUEDs were first submitted to the council on 6 September 2023. In September 2023, the airport probably assumed they were 3 years away from triggering the “within 12 months of reaching 4.5m passengers….” planning application. The expectation was that the council would give a decision in 6-8 weeks, so I think you have to look at it through that lens and why the CLUED approach made sense at the time.

But its taken nearly 2 years to get to this stage, and the airport is now much closer to triggering the 4.5m passenger limit and the need for a new planning application. On that basis, prolonging the CLUED process for another few years - with an ever decreasing likelihood of success - doesn’t make much sense to me. But I guess we’ll wait and see.

Prolonging the CLEUD process doesn't reduce the likelihood of success, because success depends on whether or not the airport can show that there's been an error in the application and interpretation of the planning consent either by the council or inspector, or both. If there has, they could win the case, and if there hasn't then it's pointless and a waste of money. No doubt LBAs legal advisors will push the airport one way or the other. They certainly don't want to go to court, lose, and end up paying not only their fees but the Council too, and 'that lot', assuming they beg, borrow and steal enough to go to court . Not only that but they'll be no further forward.

As you say, they are probably going to have to submit a planning application within 12 months relating to S106 so they may as well include a change in night hours to 0600-2330, pointing out the council approved those hours only a few years ago as part of the new terminal scheme. It would strange to now refuse the same hours they previously approved. The fact that without the expected
increase in pax (a possibility unless these night hours are resolved) the Council won't get their pound of flesh from LBA might focus their attention..

The big issue is though that the new planning application will, in all probability, result in approval being given but only with some other form of control included, such as a passenger cap. Presumably 7m as that's always been the figure quoted. Councils like passenger caps. LBA won't like it, but airport growth always seems to be a case of take what you can now, and deal with the future in the future! LBA are doing that just now - dealing with the fall out from 24H approval over 30 years ago and it's coming back to bite! The irony is of course that back then, LBA were part owned by Leeds City Council!

 

[Bigman]

I cannot help but note that there are only 4 arrivals between 10:00 and 13:00 tomorrow. This is where we should be looking to rack 'em and stack 'em. Loads of scope for more flights and bugger all that the antibodies can do about it

 

[752]

No good for based units. I do think some sort of agreement will be reached (hope). They can’t not. Surely LCC can not openly sabotage a growing airport? And local economy? Or can they.

Whilst down the road they’re pressing to open a dead duck, absolutely ironic.

Surely if an aircraft has a night slot and arrives during the day period, the airport should be given the slot back. If that’s the petty way it’s going to be.

How frustrating. I hope the airport and the team are on it.

 

[White Heather]

No good for based units. I do think some sort of agreement will be reached (hope). They can’t not. Surely LCC can not openly sabotage a growing airport? And local economy? Or can they.

Whilst down the road they’re pressing to open a dead duck, absolutely ironic.

Surely if an aircraft has a night slot and arrives during the day period, the airport should be given the slot back. If that’s the petty way it’s going to be.

How frustrating. I hope the airport and the team are on it.

It's actually movements that count, and the time they occur. But if a flight due at 2330 lands at 2259, it won't count against the quota, so effectively, the airport does get one back. It's for that reason that some flights scheduled to depart at (say) 0650, which would count, are being held back by ATC to depart at 0700 when they dont count. Expect to see more of that.

 

[michael]

I've never worked in aviation and no idea how far ahead slots are allocated but here's a thought that may or may not work.
Given it's Jet2 who have the main issue here if they were to move their 6 to 8 am departures to between 10am and noon those aircraft would then potentially be setting off on their second flights between 7 and 9pm which potentially see them landing back at LBA just after 7am. I know logistically it would no doubt be impossible but such airports as PMI, TFS, ZTH, already accept middle of the night arrivals.
As examples tonight from Manchester there's a Tui departure to PMI at 2255, ZTH at 2325, and a Ryanair departure at 2115 to AGP. Ok, the PMI is due back just after 5am but the ZTH is not due back until 0750. Any Canary flights would definitely not be back before 7am.

Just a thought..............

 

[752]

I've never worked in aviation and no idea how far ahead slots are allocated but here's a thought that may or may not work.
Given it's Jet2 who have the main issue here if they were to move their 6 to 8 am departures to between 10am and noon those aircraft would then potentially be setting off on their second flights between 7 and 9pm which potentially see them landing back at LBA just after 7am. I know logistically it would no doubt be impossible but such airports as PMI, TFS, ZTH, already accept middle of the night arrivals.
As examples tonight from Manchester there's a Tui departure to PMI at 2255, ZTH at 2325, and a Ryanair departure at 2115 to AGP. Ok, the PMI is due back just after 5am but the ZTH is not due back until 0750. Any Canary flights would definitely not be back before 7am.

Just a thought..............

Not a good idea for customers though, there are already bad enough arrival times! Good thought however not the outcome I would think Jet2 would want or accept.

I’m sure there corporates affairs team and other teams will be involved behind the scenes also

 

[Len Fish]

Now is probably as good a time as ever to put in a planning application for the extension of night time hours and the exemption for quieter aircraft counting towards the quota. Given we seem to have a Government that looks more favourably on aviation than its predecessor and the fact the Chancellor is a Leeds MP supposedly committed to economic growth strong political pressure from the centre may well bring the local councillors into line.

 

[White Heather]

I've never worked in aviation and no idea how far ahead slots are allocated but here's a thought that may or may not work.
Given it's Jet2 who have the main issue here if they were to move their 6 to 8 am departures to between 10am and noon those aircraft would then potentially be setting off on their second flights between 7 and 9pm which potentially see them landing back at LBA just after 7am. I know logistically it would no doubt be impossible but such airports as PMI, TFS, ZTH, already accept middle of the night arrivals.
As examples tonight from Manchester there's a Tui departure to PMI at 2255, ZTH at 2325, and a Ryanair departure at 2115 to AGP. Ok, the PMI is due back just after 5am but the ZTH is not due back until 0750. Any Canary flights would definitely not be back before 7am.

Just a thought..............

Airlines such as Inter European used to do this from LBA on flights to the likes of Paphos and Larnaca. I was on the Paphos flight, leaving there during the night and back into LBA first thing. Not really pleasant but then neither is arriving at LBA at 0300 either. Are least there is public transport in the morning for those who need it.

It's not something that Jet2 do though.....

Now is probably as good a time as ever to put in a planning application for the extension of night time hours and the exemption for quieter aircraft counting towards the quota. Given we seem to have a Government that looks more favourably on aviation than its predecessor and the fact the Chancellor is a Leeds MP supposedly committed to economic growth strong political pressure from the centre may well bring the local councillors into line.

A fact I'm sure LBA management will have on their minds too.

 

[michael]

Airlines such as Inter European used to do this from LBA on flights to the likes of Paphos and Larnaca. I was on the Paphos flight, leaving there during the night and back into LBA first thing. Not really pleasant but then neither is arriving at LBA at 0300 either. Are least there is public transport in the morning for those who need it.

It's not something that Jet2 do though.....

They might have to start doing it.............although it would play havoc with tail swaps!

 

[northsouth]

well it's now news is slowly coming out across the local media outlets so be prepared for usual fanfare of rubbish miss information so might have to swich off the local tv news later

 

[Finger66]

Gloating Alliance (of) Loudmouth B******s Again

 

[northsouth]

managed to read a bit of the story on YEP website with photos of those who shall not be named claiming victory - but interesting reading some of the public comments are mostly pro airport why don't these people just accept it like other city's !!

 

[JRP]

Just out of context what are the QC ratings of the props we can have unlimited night flights with?

 

[LBAYORKIE]

Just out of context what are the QC ratings of the props we can have unlimited night flights with?

Worth reading Post 104 for this info.

 

[752]

Obviously the big news made it to the DSA support page, one comment on YP that pax numbers will fall dramatically when DSA opens.. still don't make me laugh

 

[LBAYORKIE]

Obviously the big news made it to the DSA support page, one comment on YP that pax numbers will fall dramatically when DSA opens.. still don't make me laugh

Also article in YP online, hailing the great victory for local residents.


....and Wharfedale Observer. Barry Wheatpeas is a happy man!

 

[Sherburnflyer92]

Also article in YP online, hailing the great victory for local residents.

Just like the Leeds City Council, YP is the enemy of local residents. One wonders if the Council pay the YP to be their propaganda, climate is burning, anti aviation mouthpiece.

 

[LBA4EVER]

Just out of context what are the QC ratings of the props we can have unlimited night flights with?

No ideas please, we dont want endless jet2 props haha
Those aer lingus ATRs certainly make a fair bit of noise, personally i love the sound of a prop.

 

[LBAYORKIE]

Just like the Leeds City Council, YP is the enemy of local residents. One wonders if the Council pay the YP to be their propaganda, climate is burning, anti aviation mouthpiece.

The council arent anti-airport though.

 

[752]

Anybody heard anything from the airport?