White Heather
Elite Pro-Member
Can't help thinking that Peel are asking for what they know the Mayor can't give.
A new airport.... South Yorkshire Airport City?
- Thread starter mdobuk21
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In which I can’t see them accepting.
Finger66
Well-Known Member
I think this is all just a case of everyone going through the motions. This way after closure Peel can say we did talk to interested parties but they didn’t offer anywhere close to the value, whilst at the same time the local politicians can say we did all we could to save the airport but were unable to strike a deal (this is the polite version by the way)
Asking for £20m is a smart move. This is one scenario, move the goal posts so they are not achievable. There is also a scenario whereby Peel get the £20m loan they originally requested from the local authorities prior to the consultation to close, as cash to maintain operations. No longer £20m that they need to borrow. Already the council have got letters of intent for potential buyers and Peel now have 2 years to close a deal whereby they are effectively not paying for the airports operation and devolve themselves of risk exposure. Meanwhile the Gateway East development potential which Peel want to unlock has suddenly become more attractive and development timetable brought forward with the proceeds from the sale of the airport.
I maybe wide of the mark, but Peel could have played a masterstroke here. It will be very interesting to see how the council and combined authority respond to this, it is almost as if Peel have backed them into a corner.
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Peel will meet with investors this week. Interestingly in Ros Jones' statement this afternoon she states that the offer of £7m over 2 years remains. She claims they have not received any other demands directly from Peel in this regard.
I wonder what letter the BBC were reading?
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White Heather
Elite Pro-Member
Auntie Beeb, with their pro DSA campaign, visited Blackpool Airport today and spoke to their Managing Director. Remember, Blackpool closed after Jet2 left, but re_opened a month later. Their MD painted a gloomy picture about the chances for DSA being saved either before, or (even less likely) after closure. This report by the BBC seemed to be less optimistic than any previous reports..
Sherburnflyer92
Elite-Member
Blackpool closed to commercial operations the reason that Jet2 then left. Otherwise I'm sure it would of folded into Manchester at some point or be a base of 2 737-800's.
The MD is right. As awful and blunt as this is now going to sound - but it's going to be blunt - we have a few too many airports in the UK. Sadly in this area Doncaster is the one that is one too many. John Prescott rightly said that it will bring investment into the area but as a airport it's not needed. He was right.
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- #207
Airport designation codes of the late 70s saw the end of natural consumer lead expansion of airports. Airports such as Manchester were effectively given the green light to expand larger than perhaps they should've done at the time which essentially lead to an unfair advantage over other airports in the North of England. Basically Mancheste airport drained the catchment of the entire Yorkshire region. Leeds Bradford is in a unique position in that it is in-between the main cities it serves. Its somewhat awkward position is in someways beneficial to the catchment it serves as it also allows good access from the North East such as Harrogate and York. It too has struggled to gain any momentum up until the arrival of Leeds based airline Jet2. The uphill struggle still remains with local politicians still trying to dictate to businesses without understanding business needs or the needs of the flying public. I admit it is frustrating and I would love to see Yorkshire airport(s) do well but not at the expense of each other. Sadly the ship sailed years ago after the intercontinental aviation needs of Yorkshire became catered for by Manchester airport. Significant investment has been made in that airport and there is simply no point in trying to pretend Doncaster can do the same when that market is already spoken for. We need to concentrate on maintaining and improving the current services from the region.
White Heather
Elite Pro-Member
It's been posted today on the Leeds East Airport forum that Aeros Flight Training are relocating their flying school to Leeds East Airport at Church Fenton. Another nail in the coffin. Good news for Leeds East though to have its own flying school, although very close to the adjacent Sherburn which also has a flight training facility. The skies are going to be busy to the East of Leeds!
Just one arrival today (Wednesday) between 2pm and midnight and one departure at 2pm. A graphic illustration as to why DSA is not viable as is. Do they close the terminal up, turn off the lights, go home, then come back late evening for the late arrivals (there's a couple more after midnight as the based TUis return)?
The fact it's Wednesday and a quiet day is neither here nor there.It's mid October and we aren't into the winter season yet. It shouldn't be like this.
For comparison, between 2pm and midnight LBA has 22 arrivals and 14 departures. Not earth shattering but reasonable for a regional airport.
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Just one arrival today (Wednesday) between 2pm and midnight and one departure at 2pm. A graphic illustration as to why DSA is not viable as is. Do they close the terminal up, turn off the lights, go home, then come back late evening for the late arrivals (there's a couple more after midnight as the based TUis return)?
The fact it's Wednesday and a quiet day is neither here nor there.It's mid October and we aren't into the winter season yet. It shouldn't be like this.
For comparison, between 2pm and midnight LBA has 22 arrivals and 14 departures. Not earth shattering but reasonable for a regional airport.
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White Heather
Elite Pro-Member
As per a tweet from Ros Jones today (Doncaster Mayor) the financial offer to Peel Holdings is £7m over 24 months to underwrite their losses. Without TUI, Wizz etc. those losses will be increasing as there won't be any income to speak of. Unless both airlines do a complete about turn and scrap their announced moves, it's hard to see how the airport can be saved other than it being mothballed indefinitely while any takeover is discussed and the potential re-opening in the future, provided Peel agree not to asset strip.
Somehow, I cannot see £7m keeping Peel interested although Ros Jones also disputes any demand if £20m from Peel, despite the report this week stating this by the dear old BBC.
As was mentioned I can’t see much chance of airlines changing their minds as even if they were to keep it open longer there’s still uncertainty about its future. With LBA Wizz have a deal with swissport to operate from there aswell as increased activity with TUI. That’s the case with MAN and EMA which are having more TUI next year. And also people will have booked to fly from those airports.
Though I agree that £7m won’t interest them.
Though I agree that £7m won’t interest them.
White Heather
Elite Pro-Member
This is a report given by Peel Holdings to the DSA Airport Consultative Committee at a special meeting convened to explain to the Committee the decision to close and what actions had been taken. It's rather interesting to say the least! It shows that the review of the airport was carried out by various parties, including representatives from the very people who are now campaigning to stop closure, and consultants they appointed, and who before the closure decision was made, had refused funding when approached by Peel. It also shows that Peel held discussions with the Department for Transport and new Transport Minister before the closure decision was taken.
Click on the blue link at the bottom for a lot more detail.
Worth noting that the airport say it would need 2.5 to 3 million passengers per year to be viable, pretty much double what it has had during its busier years.
It confirms that not only Manchester Airports Group but also Leeds Bradford and East Midlands had offered interviews to displaced staff.
The next Consultative Meeting in October was cancelled and on 2nd November, there is a meeting which is labelled as FINAL MEETING.
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Finger66
Well-Known Member
As has been said before, any potential negotiations are all about saving face and nothing more as I for one do not see how any of this changes the outcome/decision. It’s all about “well we tried............”
White Heather
Elite Pro-Member
Or about saving face because reading this it appears that in part, their refusal to offer the £20m requested at that time, led towards closure. That said, £20m is a huge amount to give to a private airport operator to cover yet more losses. Funny that it's the same amount that the BBC now claim DSA are demanding to stay open.
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White Heather
Elite Pro-Member
Isn't that compulsory when they've had a petition of more than 100k signatures? My thoughts are it's not going to change a thing and Liz Truss has quit, so she's going to do nothing now - not that she ever would. ' Do what I can' sounded like a cop out to me.
- Jan 16, 2009
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- Moderator
- #217
Same as before. This is a commercial decision etc… What else can be said?
There’s a lot being said about ‘levelling up’, but I was under the impression that was a Borisism (?) could be wrong, either way it’s a cynical attempt at placating us ‘remoaners’ by using EUite lingo. And to be honest it’s pretty irrelevant given that this is a commercial venture and not an airport currently owned and being funded directly by the local authority.
The only way I think that Peel will u-turn is if;
1. They are offered their value of the land in sale price.
2. It is clear that they will not be able to use the land for other purposes in a reasonable* timeframe.
3. The Government intervene.**
So I think this is pretty much set in stone, and no parliamentary discussion is likely to change that.
As I understand it, the last commercial flight will depart two weeks tomorrow (4th November), with a final TUI departure on Saturday 5th November as an empty positioning sector outbound.
*Peel would more than likely happily sit on the land for a decade before it’s completely unusable as an airport.
** I believe this would require new laws, as I’m not sure there is anything the Government can do in their powers aside from the things already mentioned that aren’t applicable to DSA. CPO would be a local matter and highly unlikely to be successful IMO.
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Yea sorry I should have mentioned that they have reached over 100k signature’s.
The Parliamentary debate is just a vanity project for Nick Fletcher MP. It will not achieve anything other than generate continued news fodder and Facebook soundbites. The fact that the PM has resigned and in a couple of weeks (or whenever) there will be a new cabinet, I would expect little or no shift in the position of the government in respect of DSA. In the meantime, Peel still continue towards closure. For the local politicians, they will now be fine tuning their position on how they look/have looked in respect of the closure in front of their constituents.
- Moderator
- #220
Doncaster ATZ is set to be downgraded to class G Airspace from 15:00 (GMT) on the 18th of November 2022
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