A new airport.... South Yorkshire Airport City?

[Eusebius]

Agree completely, but it’s politics. Theres no way the loan would have been approved in November had politics got played the deciding factor in it. Guy Aston was instructed by Tice to whip all councillors into voting in favour, he was then met with a torrent of ‘abuse’ and stood down. They know the local Tory lot don’t support it in its current guise, they probably know it’s a failed experiment before it even gets off the ground, but they have to protect their political standing.

Demand can be created but in the case of DSA, the very reason it was built by Peel is that they believed the demand could be created through displacing passengers from other airports. In order to do this you need 110% support from airlines. Easyjet tried it and they couldn’t make it fit. TUI did ok but they’re the most seasonal airline of the lot. Wizzair proved it was too tough to achieve. Flybe just used it as a way of utilising fixed cost assets. Ryanair opened bases at EMA and LBA after DSA opened. It just speaks volumes. Jet2 never even bothered, they even looked at HUY at one point too!!

What needs to be made known to councillors (under suitable NDA) is the genuine appetite from airlines. I mean MOUs not pleasantries. If they can secure enough long term agreements to comfortably head towards the magic 2.5 mppa figure then I’d do a 180 in an instant. But I don’t believe they have anyone and they know they’re using public cash on a hope strategy. Hope is not a strategy.

Even 2.5 mppa is only just about getting there though isn't it - even if it was remotely achievable. I mean, the most optimistic fantasy-land projections are barely nudging into 'not losing' territory.

It's hard to get away from the fact that Doncastrians can easily get to an airport when they want to. No doubt it's very convenient having an international airport on your doorstep, but the total cost of this could easily run into a few hundred million pounds all done. And for what? So Terry and June from Armthorpe don't have to make the unbearable, utterly treacherous and exhausting one hour drive to Manchester when they go to Alicante once a year?

 

[pug]

Even 2.5 mppa is only just about getting there though isn't it - even if it was remotely achievable. I mean, the most optimistic fantasy-land projections are barely nudging into 'not losing' territory.

It's hard to get away from the fact that Doncastrians can easily get to an airport when they want to. No doubt it's very convenient having an international airport on your doorstep, but the total cost of this could easily run into a few hundred million pounds all done. And for what? So Terry and June from Armthorpe don't have to make the unbearable, utterly treacherous and exhausting one hour drive to Manchester when they go to Alicante once a year?

I suppose under the current model, where in spite of a spurious ‘fact check’20% of the turnover goes to the land owner, they you’re probably right. Yes Donny people and particularly those in Sheffield can quite easily get to other airports and so the captive market, particularly for the price sensitive, is tiny. It’s why I advocate Humberside as it has that ‘local’ USP and historically is able ti charge a bit more for the convenience. Much larger captive market.

Just going back to the hope strategy, in an extreme analogy it’s like me going to the bank to ask for a much bigger mortgage. ‘But how will you pay for it?’ They’d ask. Well it’s ok because I hope to win the lottery in ten years. Obviously I deserve it, people have told me that, so it’s got to make sense right?

 

[Stagman]

Didn't the Mayor say she had six airlines.

Eastern Airways - Bust
Blue Islands - Bust
Aer Lingus - Closed down
Ascend Airways- Closed down
Lufthansa Cityline - Closed down
Ecojet - Plug pulled

Plus a few more I can't think of off top of my head.

 

[pug]

Didn't the Mayor say she had six airlines.

Eastern Airways - Bust
Blue Islands - Bust
Aer Lingus - Closed down
Ascend Airways- Closed down
Lufthansa Cityline - Closed down
Ecojet - Plug pulled

Plus a few more I can't think of off top of my head.

I thought it was 5?

Dan Air
Flybe
Pan Am
TWA
Monarch

Could be wrong.

Christian Foster is on record mentioning easyjet numerous times. The last time he said it as if it was a foregone conclusion, adding that there’ll be flights to emerging markets like Chaiwan and Kajerbaijan - yes I made one if those up. But he said it’ll be different this time because it won’t rely on the outbound holiday market. Evidence of this would be nice.

 

[Finger66]

Dan Air = Doncaster Airport No Airlines Interested Really
TWA = Totally Wasted Airport
Pan Am = Passengers Are Now Arriving Manchester
Flybe = From Leeds You're Better Everyday
Monarch = Manchester Or Newcastle Are Really Catchment Hotspots

 

[Eusebius]

Just going back to the hope strategy, in an extreme analogy it’s like me going to the bank to ask for a much bigger mortgage. ‘But how will you pay for it?’ They’d ask. Well it’s ok because I hope to win the lottery in ten years. Obviously I deserve it, people have told me that, so it’s got to make sense right?

And the central problem now is the opposition's cognitive dissonance. They too are telling everyone they're going to win the lottery!

Reform are showing that the project is a financial death trap while simultaneously promising to throw themselves into it. It makes absolutely no sense. They know that even in a best-case scenario the airport bleeds millions, that airlines won't touch it, and that private equity has run a mile... and then they go on to say "but we want to reopen it too!" It insults the intelligence of the very voters they are trying to court.

 

[752]

Wow looking at the supporter page it really is chaos / a mess, the narrative still trying to be spun, the constant repost of news articles, it really is mind blowing, let the airport die, the hard facts is, it isnt commercially viable. Stop wasting time and money.

 

[pug]

And the central problem now is the opposition's cognitive dissonance. They too are telling everyone they're going to win the lottery!

Reform are showing that the project is a financial death trap while simultaneously promising to throw themselves into it. It makes absolutely no sense. They know that even in a best-case scenario the airport bleeds millions, that airlines won't touch it, and that private equity has run a mile... and then they go on to say "but we want to reopen it too!" It insults the intelligence of the very voters they are trying to court.

Not much makes sense when it comes to untouchable political projects. Even when it’s blindingly obvious they cannot renege on the ‘will of the people’. The airport is a popular topic, the Cabal are trying to frame it as Reform killing the project, Reform are trying to sell it as saving the airport long term. Peel are probably sitting around waiting for it all to blow over one way or the other. However what none of them can do is say ‘DSA isn’t viable so we’re going to cancel the project’. That would be seen as being enemies of Doncaster.

Don’t forget this has been called the single biggest investment into Doncaster in a generation. It’s been sold as a major economic recovery and growth driver. It’s utter nonsense, the fact that airports need that strong economy to be able to sustain themselves is lost on them, but they’ve said it so much that their eggs are fully in that basket now.

 

[Speedbird1]

Wow looking at the supporter page it really is chaos / a mess, the narrative still trying to be spun, the constant repost of news articles, it really is mind blowing, let the airport die, the hard facts is, it isnt commercially viable. Stop wasting time and money.

I think it’s clear that the narrative has shifted and people are now asking the pertinent questions of the lease and funding.

People locally clearly want the airport open, but is become clearly that it’s not at any cost, or one which could bankrupt the council.

The Mechanic has lost control completely and it’s becoming blindingly obvious he wants the airport open at any cost, probably to help further his own profile. I’d say looking at his garage accounts though, he may want to stop taking days off to attend events at DSA and focus on his business before it’s too late.

It’s looking likely the vote will be to rescind the loan unless something dramatic happens in the next week. I wouldn’t be surprised if CDC then leak out claims of lost opportunities with leading airlines etc. most of which will be complete fiction as from those I’ve spoken to within the industry there is absolutely zero interest.

 

[Eusebius]

I think it’s clear that the narrative has shifted and people are now asking the pertinent questions of the lease and funding.

People locally clearly want the airport open, but is become clearly that it’s not at any cost, or one which could bankrupt the council.

The Mechanic has lost control completely and it’s becoming blindingly obvious he wants the airport open at any cost, probably to help further his own profile. I’d say looking at his garage accounts though, he may want to stop taking days off to attend events at DSA and focus on his business before it’s too late.

It’s looking likely the vote will be to rescind the loan unless something dramatic happens in the next week. I wouldn’t be surprised if CDC then leak out claims of lost opportunities with leading airlines etc. most of which will be complete fiction as from those I’ve spoken to within the industry there is absolutely zero interest.

Yes, I reckon people are starting to understand the reality of the situation. I think if Tice hadn't waded in with his size tens the other day and spouted some reheated bunkum he dreamt up back in 2022, Reform might have been in a position to capitalise - humiliate Jones, and put a stop to this lunacy.

Whatever, as you say it looks like the vote will go with recission. After that perhaps Donny's rulers can take a long hard look at this and ask themselves whether it's really the best use of all that money...

 

[Guppy]

I think it’s clear that the narrative has shifted and people are now asking the pertinent questions of the lease and funding.

People locally clearly want the airport open, but is become clearly that it’s not at any cost, or one which could bankrupt the council.

The Mechanic has lost control completely and it’s becoming blindingly obvious he wants the airport open at any cost, probably to help further his own profile. I’d say looking at his garage accounts though, he may want to stop taking days off to attend events at DSA and focus on his business before it’s too late.

It’s looking likely the vote will be to rescind the loan unless something dramatic happens in the next week. I wouldn’t be surprised if CDC then leak out claims of lost opportunities with leading airlines etc. most of which will be complete fiction as from those I’ve spoken to within the industry there is absolutely zero interest.

They are already trying to show the potential lost jobs. This confusing article shows 200 jobs on site due to 2Excel, then later it states "we had 200 here" mmmmmm 2 excel .

They have now also got a marjor cargo customer....but can't tell us who it is 🙄major cargo customer

 

[Speedbird1]

They are already trying to show the potential lost jobs. This confusing article shows 200 jobs on site due to 2Excel, then later it states "we had 200 here" mmmmmm 2 excel .

They have now also got a marjor cargo customer....but can't tell us who it is 🙄major cargo customer

Right one cue. It’s the last desperate acts to try and keep the loan. I’d expect over the next week it becomes even more desperate and they start to say the have major airlines lined up etc.

I’d have to question why so many want to push through a project that so many can see will fail very quickly. The business plan done previously will not be worth the paper it’s written on now as the world has changed especially in aviation in the past 6 months. It’s likely the industry will at best stagnate if not rescind over the next year or two.

Hopefully people will see through the convenient timing of these announcements and continue to ask the right questions about viability and funding.

 

[pug]

They are already trying to show the potential lost jobs. This confusing article shows 200 jobs on site due to 2Excel, then later it states "we had 200 here" mmmmmm 2 excel .

They have now also got a marjor cargo customer....but can't tell us who it is 🙄major cargo customer

These vague press releases were as to be expected and as Speedbird predicted. We’ve also heard it all before haven’t we, certainly during the Peel days. The giveaway to this is that they claim this mystery interested operator are not in discussions with other airports (so why is it so sensitive then), so if they desperately need to get their goods through DSA to potentially save £20 million per year, the ROI doesn’t seem to make much sense at all. You’re talking a huge investment to save relative peanuts. So what company would save that much by locating at DSA that isn’t too fussed about looking elsewhere like EMA? Doesn’t sound like a need at all.

It’s nothing more than a tactical leak from people who are worried about their jobs, to hell with people who have genuine concerns over the financing of this thing. However if they do have tangible interest then perhaps it’s time to rethink going to the private sector again? Just a thought…

 

[Eusebius]

However if they do have tangible interest then perhaps it’s time to rethink going to the private sector again? Just a thought…

Again?! 😂

Thing is, when you take a step back and see the big picture, when you think about the implications of the lease and the finances and so on - all roads lead to Peel getting the site back at some point in the next few years. And that's the long and short of it. The only question is how much more taxpayers' money is going to be incinerated in the meantime!

 

[pug]

Again?! 😂

Thing is, when you take a step back and see the big picture, when you think about the implications of the lease and the finances and so on - all roads lead to Peel getting the site back at some point in the next few years. And that's the long and short of it. The only question is how much more taxpayers' money is going to be incinerated in the meantime!

Again?! 😂

Thing is, when you take a step back and see the big picture, when you think about the implications of the lease and the finances and so on - all roads lead to Peel getting the site back at some point in the next few years. And that's the long and short of it. The only question is how much more taxpayers' money is going to be incinerated in the meantime!

Well… It’s time to call their bluff on this. Peel wanted a freight integrator investment for years but they couldn’t ever justify building one as they couldn’t secure a tenant. If this new team have somehow managed to secure a lasting tenant then Peel will want to know as they own the land.

I suspect a lot of naivety from Christian Forster and the council compounded by people trying to protect their jobs. Air freight can be a very fickle market, it’s a certainty that this supposed interested company would not be putting hands in their own pockets to build the facilities. It’s a con to threaten Reform to step back in line.

 

[Finger66]

If any reopened DSA could ever be as busy and as popular as this thread they would be on to a winner 😜

 

[752]

I wouldn't be surprised if European air cargo was half interested in flying their Chinese tat (with a major incentive of course). Major operator ? No. I'm pretty sure their CWL/BOH/MME schedules and services are not operating as they should be. Wouldn't be confident at all with them.

As discussed though, its perfect timing and desperate last attempt. Its boring.

 

[pug]

I wouldn't be surprised if European air cargo was half interested in flying their Chinese tat (with a major incentive of course). Major operator ? No. I'm pretty sure their CWL/BOH/MME schedules and services are not operating as they should be. Wouldn't be confident at all with them.

As discussed though, its perfect timing and desperate last attempt. Its boring.

I’ve asked around and the consensus is that it’s not likely to be all that genuine. When someting seems too good to be true, and when it’s ‘leaked’ conveniently just days before a vote that we’re told could ‘kill’ the project, it’s a safe bet that they’re trying to paint the grass green. When there is apparently no interest to look at other airports due to the ‘unique’ opportunity of using DSA this suggests there is no commercial confidentiality to protect. So unless they can name the supposed interested party then this I’m afraid must be filed as horse sh*t.

 

[Guppy]

Looking at the majority of comments on FB following the Free Press article about these cargo deals, people have woken up and don’t believe the narrative comingFb post from the council anymore

 

[pug]

Looking at the majority of comments on FB following the Free Press article about these cargo deals, people have woken up and don’t believe the narrative comingFb post from the council anymore

Meanwhile Ros Jones has written (presumably by a ghost writer) ab open letter to Jason Charity. ‘All he needed to do was turn up to the meetings’ apparently. This pathetically misses the point, the meetings did not contain the details of the lease nor the terrible head of terms that she herself signed and that her and the cabal had tried to keep secret because they too know how terrible the deal was.

She talks about a soft market test, and the due diligence completed by private investors in 2024 that returned with zero interest. She’s literally saying in the letter that the project is uninvestible! She seems to ignore the fact that Jason Charity did not vote in favour in November.

She also dangles the carrot of renegotiation being almost complete. They’ve had over 2 years and 2 months to renegotiate this lease, why have they left it until September, and then continued with that narrative after the details were leaked early this year?

I find it tough to call again. I think this farce should have been put to bed in 2022. However I wouldn’t be surprised if these hollow mentions of ‘advanced negotiations’ sway the idiots in the council and the money is then lost forever.