Jet2 - Flight Delay Compensation

[stevemej]

I have an ongoing claim for compensation with jet2 for a delay of 5.5 hours last year in which they say the delay was caused by "extraordinary circumstances, more specifically a flight safety shortcoming". Looking at other peoples experiences Jet2 seem to refuse to accept responsibility for ANY delay. Every single complainant I have come across seem to have exactly the same letter.

Is anybody aware of any successful claims for compensation (against jet2) against EU 261/2004.

 

[lbia]

If you are not satisfied, you will need to take them to court.

Most technical delays are subject to 'extrodinary circumstances' when it comes to this European regulation. The airline will provide specifics for the flight in great detail, and in general even though the regulation favours the customer, if it reaches court level, the airline will win.

Jet2 will have to provide information regarding the component that failed on that particular flight. They will then have to prove the shelf life of that component, i.e. 10,000 cycles. If the part failed at say 5,000 cycles then the Airline is not held responsible. However if it failed at say 8,000 cycles then there is a possible case that the airline were expecting this to happen. Most of the maintenance on the fleet over the last 12/24 months has been to replace parts that are approaching their shelf life. If you are talking about the delay you previously mentioned to me, this particular flight delay was caused by a new component from Boeing failing.

The court will then look at the welfare issued by Jet2, no doubt approx £5,000 mark for that return flight. They will also look at what other measures Jet2 took to minimise the delay, i.e. the use of a sub-charter or positioning in of a standby aircraft, re-shuffling of the fleet to say delay 2 flights rather than one big delay etc.

When investigating each flight, Jet2 make a decision based on the above, i.e. if they would loose in court, they pay the compensation as it is cheaper than the legal fees, however if they have a strong case they will not pay and will be more than happy for you to take them to court - however, should they win, they are not liable for any fees.

You really should believe what they are saying, they are legally bound to tell the truth as it would not stand up in court and would cost them hugely if they lied. Whilst this does not give you the answer you want, it might give clarity on what you need to do.

With regard to this EC/261, much like the PPI claims, legal firms have seen huge £ in helping customers claim for delayed flights. By all means try claim, but the airlines will provide explicit details to stop them paying out millions in compensation as it simply would bankrupt most carriers. Personally i'd weigh up is it worth the legal battle and most likely £££££ in legal fees, for very slight chance of getting £300 compo? No.

 

[stevemej]

"Most technical delays are subject to 'extrordinary circumstances' when it comes to this European regulation." - Well although the original EU ruling is a little bit woolly about whether technical faults on the plane constitute extraordinary circumstances there have been 2 cases that clarify this, in favour of the passengers. The latest incarnation of the legislation, due to become law next year, gets rid of the 'grey area' and again finds in favour of the passenger.

"re-shuffling of the fleet to say delay 2 flights rather than one big delay etc." - We are pretty sure this is the REAL cause of our delay. This is an operational decision by the company and NOT extraordinary circumstances.

"You really should believe what they are saying, they are legally bound to tell the truth" - If airlines didn't BS so much then passengers might believe what they say. About 5 years ago the exact same thing happened to us. There was an earlier flight which had been delayed by about 5 hours. The pax were up in arms and when our plane came (we saw it land and pull up to the gate as listed on the board). the delayed passengers departed. the Airline then said our flight had a tech issue. Even though the reps in the airport denied our plane had been given to these pax the LIE was confirmed when we found out that our luggage had gone to manchester by mistake. Guess where the delayed flight was destined? Yes Manchester.

"With regard to this EC/261, much like the PPI claims, legal firms have seen huge £ in helping customers claim for delayed flights" - I have done lots of research and I have not come across any 3rd party organisation trying to represent claimants. In fact the opposite. lots of individuals trying to claim the compensation due to delays and coming up against the 'brick wall' of companies giving the SAME letter to every claimant saying that the reason for the delay is "extraordinary circumstances, specifically a flight safety shortcoming". I have not come across a single case where Jet2 have paid out any compensation.
Other airlines have paid compensation but not Jet2. Maybe Jet2 have just been incredibly unlucky with "extraordinary circumstances" and technical issues which could not possibly have been forseen........ but I doubt it!

The compensation due is not £300 but £1800 as there were 6 passengers delayed by 5.5 hours. I can fully understand why Jet2 would not want to pay this out and I agree that it could be the end of them if they are forced to pay everybody out as directed by the ECJ.

I think that in the future companies like jet2 will think hard before 'robbing peter to pay paul' if they are then forced to pay 2 lots of passengers for a delay instead of 1.

 

[Moo2009]

If people claim for delays it will destroy the airline industry, it may take a few years for it to happen and think of all the AIr passenger duty the government would lose with no flights as all airlines are bankrupt. So what if you are delayed its part of life these things happen. People should stop thinking of pound signs. I understand jet2 have some very good solicitors on board so bring on the fight with them and if you lose make sure you have deep pockets to pay legal costs

 

[stevemej]

So what if you are delayed its part of life these things happen. People should stop thinking of pound signs./quote]

when I started looking into the circumstances of this delay I found that Jet2 were running their services with a fleet of geriatric aircraft. I looked into number of technical problems Jet2 were having and there were issues most days. The particular aircraft which went tech on this particular day was made a joke on this forum, by its members. The joke was to come up with a suitable name that the letters GLSAB stood for which reflected its reliability record.

Whilst I actually think that the amount of compensation for delays is punitive I also can see last summer Jet2 were continually letting LBIA customers down.

Maybe they should lay off some of their "very good solicitors" you spoke about and spend more money on their fleet.

 

[cmj]

If people claim for delays it will destroy the airline industry, it may take a few years for it to happen and think of all the AIr passenger duty the government would lose with no flights as all airlines are bankrupt. So what if you are delayed its part of life these things happen. People should stop thinking of pound signs. I understand jet2 have some very good solicitors on board so bring on the fight with them and if you lose make sure you have deep pockets to pay legal costs

The airline industry is plenty good enough at seeing pounds when it comes to charges!

That said, I still don't agree with the 'delay claims' - the airline needs to do what it can to get you to where you are going, or near enough that you are happy with it (eg. I'd take a flight into Manchester over staying overnight abroad, and have done before) and pay out-of-pocket expenses, but not massive amounts of compensation.

Of course there may may be some argument over what one can expect them to do. Next flight, re-route I would expect, a private jet I would not.

 

[lbia]

Yes but as a new member to the forum, I'm sure you haven't got the full picture and have just picked up on the negatives.

Jet2's technical dispatch reliability for the fleet are all at or above industry standard and on the 737-300 fleet are actually much better than most other UK operators operating 25 year old aircraft.

737-300 - 98.9%
737-800 - 99.2%
757 - 98.3 %

That means out of 100 flights, 98 will depart with no technical defect, on the 757 fleet for example. All airlines have to publish these, and I can tell you now, compared to the likes of Monarch's 757 and A320 fleet and BA's 767 and 737 fleet......

It's old news that Jet2 have an old fleet, yes there have been delays, much like every other airline. If you believe there is a case for you to claim against them, then please take them to court and don't bring it on a public forum. I've given you enough information to make an informed decision what you need to do. If you don't claim, then please accept you are not due compensation and stop going on about it. This EC261 is stupid, and like the Americans, people here now feel the need to claim against anything and everything to personally benefit them financially. End of story.

 

[stevemej]

It's true I am a new member of this forum. However, a 'star conributor' of this forum raised exactly the same issue regarding Jet2's performance last summer (only a week after my 5.5 hour delayed flight). If you look at page 189 of Weather & Technical Diversions, Delays & Cancellations thread he suggests Jet2 "get a grip"

I think that Jet2 flight delay compensation is a topical subject. I am in touch with 3 or 4 other people who have had substantial delays and have been fobbed off by jet2 with exactly the same rejection script. Their court cases are imminent and it will be interesting to see the outcomes. I will keep this forum updated with the results.

 

[countdacash]

@stevemj I completely agree with you. I am in a similar position and got a similar response from the likes of @lbia who i can only assume is on the Jet2 payroll. I think Jet2 are clearly sending out standard letters with little or no information in to try and discourage people from claiming. To me 1 in 50 flights having a technical issue is nothing to boast about and I notice @lbia only references against other airlines with similarly old fleets. For me this is entirely appropriate thread for this forum which is for the airport where Jet2 have their home base. I believe Ryanair actually add a levy to their flights - something like £2.50 which is what they consider is the cost of servicing this legislation - so I think bankrupting airlines is scare mongering.

 

[lbia]

That's my point exactly, 'money saving expert' and all those other organisations are specifically set up to profiteer by actions like this.

Like I keep saying, if you don't believe what is being said then maybe do the adult thing and go to court rather that complain on an aviation enthusiasts website. Again, if you really think Airlines are going to not tell the truth thn you are pretty naive as this is very serious and either way they know they will be loosing millions of pounds as a result, and there will no doubt be further airline casualties as a result.

Which brings me to my last point on this subject, sh*t happens. Get over it. You are only a member on this forum to gather support and facts so you can try squeeze further money out of Jet2. This forum is for aviation enthusiasts and those that actually want to see the industry prosper. I have no where specified that I am on 'Jet2 payroll' so my sentiments are, you were quite happy to accept a cheap flight and the welfare offered at the time but now you are trying to rob them for whatever you can. If you we're due compensation, you would have received it. Take them to court, just have your cheque book ready....

 

[SNOWMAN]

hi lbia
dont bite, i agree with all you say on this subject we will see what happens when they go to court,as i have said before we had a 10 hr delay with jet 2 we well looked after and they got us away as soon as they could and we are not trying for compo.
regards
sm1

 

[craigston_tom]

"The compensation due is not £300 but £1800 as there were 6 passengers delayed by 5.5 hours. I can fully understand why Jet2 would not want to pay this out and I agree that it could be the end of them if they are forced to pay everybody out as directed by the ECJ.

Out of curiosity, what did you do during the delay that's cost 6 of you £1,800?!

 

[stevemej]

The level of compensation (400E)was set by the EU and it is not reimbursement of expenses but compensation (and I suspect punitive damages) for inconvenience.
The 5.5 hour delay actually changed a 4 night trip into a 3 night trip as the flight landed at 1:15am instead of 7pm.

The delay was actually cause by Jet2 making an operational decision to give my wifes plane to some earlier passengers delayed themselves >5 hours. They deny this is the case but the fact remains that delayed flight (from 07:20 that morning) departed at 3:07pm (not on the plane which went tech) on another plane which mysteriously turned up out of thin air. My wifes flight then delayed for 5.5 hours.

 

[lbia]

I'm getting sick of this now. Steve, the aircraft was not given to a different flight. Ive already explained all this in an email. The flight in question should have been operated by GCELU when it got back from Budapest. It went tech on landing and as a result the flight to Malaga operated on the first 737-300 that was available at Leeds that evening.

This has NOTHING to do with the 07:20 flight to Alicante that was operated on a 757. Please listen to what I've repeatedly told you, its really annoying me now. The Aircraft in question was in maintenance a weeks before, a replacement part was sent over from Boeing for one of its breaks as the current part was getting old. On landing at Leeds, on the day in question, the aircraft had a shudder and vibration and on inspection the replacement part had failed. Once again (for the god knows how many time) this has nothing to do with the 07:20 Alicante flight which was delayed. This was a totally different Aircraft type.

Again, you are NOT due compensation, because Jet2 did everything in their control, to replace the part. It was not through their negligence that the part failed, it was unfortunate. Jet2 did everything they are legally obliged to do, they offered welfare and gave information as it was available. I'm not replying to any more posts on this thread, it's clear you have a very basic/no understanding of airline/airport operations and have only come on this forum to get answers to get you some money.

It is beyond me, how you think it is reasonable to try claim £6 for every minute you were delayed. That is totally crazy.

 

[stevemej]

You also told me SPECIFICALLY that GCELU was the only plane to suffer with a brake problem on that date.

What was the cause of the problem with the 07:20am flight to Alicante (G-LSAB) ?

I'll help you out here lbia:

Weather & Technical Diversions, Delays & Cancellations
by lbia » Fri Jul 13, 2012 11:48 am

"G-LSAB is still tech. It had a temporary repair yesterday but that cannot be done again. In simple terms, it needed a new brake cable which has come from DHL at East Mids but it also requires a new plastic panel to be fitted to protect the cable. "

 

[airforced]

This isn't the right place to air disputes nor are we interested in the detail of your argument with Jet2. I think lbia has been very generous in responding in the way he has - some would say too generous - and he is now doing the right thing by putting a zip on it. You are never going to resolve a dispute on a public forum so if you are dissatisfied - and you obviously are - with what Jet2 are saying to you take them to court as has been suggested to you earlier.

We would of course be interested hear the outcome - good or bad - of the court case as this EU legislation impacts on us all. The way the courts choose to deal with disputes such as yours would I'm sure be of interest to us.

 

[stevemej]

You are correct. I never intended this posting to become the tennis match it became. I can see that lbia is a decent enough guy and for the record I'd like to thank him(her)for the politeness and helpfulness shown with my queries. Also to all other users contributing to this thread.

 

[RJB]

In the case Wallentin-Hermann v Alitalia—Linee Aeree Italiane SpA (Case C-549/07) of 22 December 2008,[2] the European Court of Justice in Luxembourg ruled on the interpretation of Article 5 of the regulation relating to cancellations, specifically paragraph 3 which states:

An operating air carrier shall not be obliged to pay compensation in accordance with Article 7, if it can prove that the cancellation is caused by extraordinary circumstances which could not have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken.

The Court agreed with Wallentin-Hermann that any technical issues during aircraft maintenance don’t constitute "extraordinary circumstances" that would allow airlines to avoid paying passengers compensation for canceled flights. This case therefore closed the loophole which had allowed the airlines to abuse passengers by frivolous interpretation of "technical or extraordinary circumstances"; it further defined the phrase and limited its exploitation.

The definition of "technical and/or extraordinary circumstances" by the Court now stands firm and solid: any carrier must prove that the alleged mechanical problem leading to the cancellation was "beyond its actual control".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulation_261/2004

 

[Moo2009]

Is it correct that if you claim off the airline and you lose that you have to pay the court fees

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Is it correct that if you claim off the airline and you lose that you have to pay the court fees

It is likely that the best method of pursuing such a claim if the airline continues to resist would be via the small claims court.

These links give the basic information from the UK government and interpretation from the Citizens Advice Bureau.

https://www.gov.uk/make-court-claim-for-money/overview

https://www.gov.uk/make-court-claim-for ... court-fees

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/england/l ... claims.htm

It will be seen that a court fee is payable by the claimant of which the UK government website says this:

If someone owes you money and won’t pay, you can take court action against them. This is known as making a court claim. It can also be known as taking someone to a ‘small claims court’.

You usually have to pay a court fee, and you may not win your case or get your money back.

The small claims court is an informal setting and claimants can represent themselves with no legal training or background. The courts make allowances for the fact that lay people are appearing before them and they don't expect 'Perry Mason' performances (am I showing my age with this allusion?). I've been loosely involved with a couple of small claims court actions down the years (not in any professional capacity nor related to aviation) and they really are nothing to fear in terms of procedure.

The Citizens Advice Bureau can be helpful and says this of solicitors' costs:

In most cases, the court will not order solicitors’ costs to be paid by the losing party in a small claims case, and if you instruct a solicitor you will have to pay the costs yourself. For this reason most claimants deal with a small claim without the help of a solicitor. It is possible to have the help of a friend or ‘lay representative’, for example, some Citizens Advice Bureaux can offer trained advisers to help people with small claims.

Of course, if the claimant wins a court judgement there is still the task of getting the money but airlines are reputable organisations and will usually comply with any court direction, although occasionally it's possible to appeal a small claims court decision if it's believed the court erred in law or procedure.